My children do not get vaccinated

[sh00ter]

That is the issue. Vaccines, while "very effective" in preventing diseases, they are not 100% effective in preventing diseases.
So, if your child happens to be one of the few who aren't adequately protected despite being vaccinated, and your neighbor didn't vaccinate his kid, it is not just his kid that is at risk, it is your kid too.

I'm glad you brought this up; you are one of only a handful of vaccine advocates that acknowledge they are not 100% effective. In the measles outbreak in California a few years ago, something like a third or more WERE vaccinated yet still got sick. IF THEY WERE AS EFFECTIVE AS CLAIMED, THEN THAT SHOULD HAVE ONLY BEEN 1 OR 2 VACCINATED PEOPLE TOPS...but you already know this since you know they are not 100%

Statistically, the risk is almost nil though that your vaccinated kids will verafiably get infected by an unvaccinated person, even with all the illegals flowing in. Where there is risk, there MUST be choice...if a parent reads the risks of vaccines from the inserts published by the drug companies and he/she is concerned about those risks, you shouldn't use the power of the gov't to make them do something that could hurt their child to save YOURS. I'm quite sure you'd pick your child over everyone else's if we are talking about situations other than vaccines.

Again, there is no problem of any statistical significance (especially in our state) that warrants the hysteria we see surrounding vaccines. more than 90% choose them so why chase problems that do not exist. Your child leaving the house in the morning is statistically far riskier than living next door to a child who is unvaccinated; just because the kid is unvaccinated doesn't mean that kid is carrying a disease; that is also statistically super low.

Finally, before anyone speaks up judgmentally about vaccines, they need to ask themselves if they have had 100% of their booster shots throughout their lives and as an adult? Do you have an infant and have not had recent adult booster shots before he/she was born? If yes, then you are a hypocrite.

 

[JD8]

I really wished we could cart all the anti-vax retards off to a location where they can all live....... vaccination free. Nature will take it's course.

 

[sh00ter]

I really wished we could cart all the anti-vax retards off to a location where they can all live....... vaccination free. Nature will take it's course.

I am not antivax. In order to fix a problem, you have to shed light on it. We all deserve safe & effective vaccines.

But an argument of such substance deserves an equal response. "Come and take us"...you can fight on the statists' side where collectivism rules and the individual has no rights. Thankfully the pro-liberty Oklahoma legislature fended off the attacks on our rights that came from the Chinese communist RINO Senator Yen and other career leftist bureaucrats (unelected). Chasing a phantom problem that doesn't exist in Oklahoma.

"I really wished we could cart all the pro-2nd Amendment retards off to a location where they can all live..."

 

[JD8]

I am not antivax. In order to fix a problem, you have to shed light on it. We all deserve safe & effective vaccines.

But an argument of such substance deserves an equal response. "Come and take us"...you can fight on the statists' side where collectivism rules and the individual has no rights. Thankfully the pro-liberty Oklahoma legislature fended off the attacks on our rights that came from the Chinese communist RINO Senator Yen and other career leftist bureaucrats (unelected). Chasing a phantom problem that doesn't exist in Oklahoma.

"I really wished we could cart all the pro-2nd Amendment retards off to a location where they can all live..."

What kind of asinine oranges to apples comparison is that lol? I'll leave you arguing with yourself on that mess.

To the original statement, safe vaccines exist..... there's an overwhelming amount of data. It's just a matter of education.

 

[tiasman]

I wasn't crazy about it, but they can't go to public schools without them, and the government will take your kids away if you don't put them in school. Catch 22

Incorrect on both accounts.

 

[sh00ter]

What kind of asinine oranges to apples comparison is that lol? I'll leave you arguing with yourself on that mess.

To the original statement, safe vaccines exist..... there's an overwhelming amount of data. It's just a matter of education.

Well just like all prescription drugs, there are inserts that list the potential side effects. Even with the watered down data, we know there are risks. The chances of your kid getting hurt by a vaccine are probably statistically similar if not higher to them getting infected by a non-vaxed kid. (Low but not zero).

Where there is risk, there must be choice when it comes to mandates. If I recall, you are not even for a mandate anyway, just a strong advocate...there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Shootin 4 Fun]

Vaccines are the debil!

 

[YukonGlocker]

...YES...I do not have the energy this time You sir, are a great debater.

As are you...thanks!

 

[JD8]

Well just like all prescription drugs, there are inserts that list the potential side effects. Even with the watered down data, we know there are risks. The chances of your kid getting hurt by a vaccine are probably statistically similar if not higher to them getting infected by a non-vaxed kid. (Low but not zero).

Where there is risk, there must be choice when it comes to mandates. If I recall, you are not even for a mandate anyway, just a strong advocate...there is nothing wrong with that.

The data isn't watered down.....it's overwhelming. Outside of Jenny McCarthy's reality anyways. I really don't even see how you could compare vaccinations to prescription drugs in terms of side effects. Sorry but the facts just don't support your claims.

 

[sh00ter]

The data isn't watered down.....it's overwhelming. Outside of Jenny McCarthy's reality anyways. I really don't even see how you could compare vaccinations to prescription drugs in terms of side effects. Sorry but the facts just don't support your claims.

To pretend things do not exist doesn't make for good debate or open-mindedness...I think you DO want the truth and are not some shill. I want it too...that's all we should care about...you are a skeptic in many other areas as I've seen. Skepticism and holding the "establishment" accountable is very healthy.

It is not a conspiracy that the government passed a law in the 1980's to make it illegal to sue vaccine makers
It is not a conspiracy that the government has a vaccine injury compensation court that has paid out BILLIONS of dollars in claims
It is not a conspiracy that the vaccine makers have inserts that list potential side-effects just like other prescription drugs; they are made by drug companies
It is not a conspiracy that the ingredients of vaccines are published and contain known toxins (you can argue the amounts, but you can't dispute the ingredients because they are published and acknowledged by both the gov't and the drug companies)
It is not a conspiracy that many of the vaccines statistically do not pass the cost vs benefit analysis to warrant their recommendation/mandate, nor are the diseases all the same level of threat; I covered this last time. There should be tiered vaccine schedules with emphasis both on the statistical risk of the disease and statistical chance the given vaccine will lower one's risk to contract a particular disease.

I have laid out a very cohesive position on this and I (as you) probably don't care to get into another huge discussion...the greater points are that if we do not scrutinize and put some controls on vaccines, then as we've seen, there will be more & more and more over time that cost money, do not have the patient's best interest at heart, and perhaps the greatest points:

- we have no "real" statistical issue right now to warrant mandates (but PLEASE stop illegals where much of the disease is flowing in from)
- we are not a collective and in a country of 320 million, you can't expect a free people with guaranteed liberties to do something they perceive a risk of, or violates their religion, etc., to be forced to do something that either gov't bureaucrats at the CDC, or even a majority of the population wants them to do. In a republic we have protections from mob rule if 51% want to oppress the other 49%, etc.

I think you CAN be pro-vax without being a dick...over 90% CHOOSE it so why hassle the rest anyway?

Thank goodness Trump & Pence are not rabid pro-vaxers. Trump's kid was supposedly injured by one and Pence sided with liberty when challenged as the governor...I think the mandate is the ultimate litmus test to weed out the Maoists/death campers vs. the rest of the population. Like I said, I don't recall you are for a mandate (although I think you prodded me for fun), so I'm not lumping you in. I know you want the truth; just too many moonbat hippies & such that discredit people like myself on this issue by "being on my side".