Teachers strike

[Glocktogo]

You'll have clarify when "used to be" was because receiving a diploma would include all those that achieved only the minimum standards required. I don't recall anytime in my lifetime when that has been the standard. I assume you're arguing that Oklahoma educators shouldn't receive a raise because they are failing to achieve the goal that every high school graduate is college ready. Please let me know when you find that achievement level at ANY public high school in America. I'd love to know their secret. You do know that public schools in the U.S. educate EVERY child regardless of intelligence, mental or physical ability, home life, early childhood skill development, desire to be educated, etc.? If your implication that teachers are failing to prepare most students that want to go to college is true how do you propose we attract more skilled, devoted, and experienced teachers to our state?

This. When 40% of all college students need remedial HS education to effectively attend college, you have to ask yourself how many of those college students should be working a job or attending vocational training instead. This insane belief that everyone in America needs a college degree is, well, insane!

I would argue that we've allowed hucksters to make our society overly complicated (which they're paid handsomely for doing). That in turn raises educational requirements (more money down the drain), which in turn requires higher salaries for those over-educated and under experienced employees (even more money). Pretty soon you can't snake a drain without a college degree, because of OSHA and EPA and God only knows what other laws and rules are in place to make it harder to get the job done.

I'm not saying we need to throw out ALL the laws and rules and expectations we have as a society, but we damn sure need to trim the overgrown hedges.

 

[Shadowrider]

This. When 40% of all college students need remedial HS education to effectively attend college, you have to ask yourself how many of those college students should be working a job or attending vocational training instead. This insane belief that everyone in America needs a college degree is, well, insane!

I would argue that we've allowed hucksters to make our society overly complicated (which they're paid handsomely for doing). That in turn raises educational requirements (more money down the drain), which in turn requires higher salaries for those over-educated and under experienced employees (even more money). Pretty soon you can't snake a drain without a college degree, because of OSHA and EPA and God only knows what other laws and rules are in place to make it harder to get the job done.

I'm not saying we need to throw out ALL the laws and rules and expectations we have as a society, but we damn sure need to trim the overgrown hedges.

At what point do we just make college grades 13 thru 16? Yea it's gotten that bad. We might as well, that way it can be free.
/sarcasm (for those that can't tell)

 

[TerryMiller]

This. When 40% of all college students need remedial HS education to effectively attend college, you have to ask yourself how many of those college students should be working a job or attending vocational training instead. This insane belief that everyone in America needs a college degree is, well, insane!

I would argue that we've allowed hucksters to make our society overly complicated (which they're paid handsomely for doing). That in turn raises educational requirements (more money down the drain), which in turn requires higher salaries for those over-educated and under experienced employees (even more money). Pretty soon you can't snake a drain without a college degree, because of OSHA and EPA and God only knows what other laws and rules are in place to make it harder to get the job done.

I'm not saying we need to throw out ALL the laws and rules and expectations we have as a society, but we damn sure need to trim the overgrown hedges.

That in bold and underlined: Wouldn't it be nice to REQUIRE those at OSHA, EPA, and other government bureaucracies to leave their offices and do those dirty jobs themselves. Require the regulators to walk the talk.

 

[JD8]

Anyone got that link that was posted a while back explaining what happened to the lottery money?

 

[Dave70968]

Anyone got that link that was posted a while back explaining what happened to the lottery money?

http://www.toilets.com/

 

[Billybob]

This. When 40% of all college students need remedial HS education to effectively attend college, you have to ask yourself how many of those college students should be working a job or attending vocational training instead. This insane belief that everyone in America needs a college degree is, well, insane!

I would argue that we've allowed hucksters to make our society overly complicated (which they're paid handsomely for doing). That in turn raises educational requirements (more money down the drain), which in turn requires higher salaries for those over-educated and under experienced employees (even more money). Pretty soon you can't snake a drain without a college degree, because of OSHA and EPA and God only knows what other laws and rules are in place to make it harder to get the job done.

I'm not saying we need to throw out ALL the laws and rules and expectations we have as a society, but we damn sure need to trim the overgrown hedges.

Yes and it's the lowering of standards that has helped make this happen. Public schools lowered the standards to get more to graduate and making them think they need to go to college as an assurance of "making it" when in reality many just go to play and drop out rates are high. Meanwhile colleges have also lowered their standards to get more students and more public funds. As for "educational requirements" what do those really mean when the standards of those requirements are lowered? Almost sounds like fraud. But of course aside from the questionable education the 50% or so that don't drop out get there's a lot of social conditioning if not engineering being put forth to all of the increased number of students going.
http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/top_...e_american_education_standards_collapsed.html

Going back to the base again this starts in public school and it's interesting to note that around 2014 teaching colleges and Ed. degrees came under scrutiny for lowering their standards. Interesting to note the primary study that set much of it off and is cited in several articles cannot be found.
Study Delivers Failing Grades For Many Programs Training Teachers
https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/201...ng-grades-for-many-programs-training-teachers
A Key Reason Why American Students Do Poorly
A Key Reason Why American Students Do Poorly
Why Johnny’s Teacher Can’t Teach
https://www.city-journal.org/html/why-johnny’s-teacher-can’t-teach-11928.html

 

[jmike314]

Mike I am on board with your message in general (supporting alternative paths to teaching), but I want to help offer a clarification. You're talking about Alternative Certification. What's commonly utilized by districts now is Emergency Certification, which basically requires a general relationship of one's background to the subject they are teaching and approval by the school district.



They don't take any other classes or certs immediately to teach. They just get in the classroom and go to work. I think they still get two years before they have to become Alt Certified, "regular" Certified, or possibly simply get their emergency certification renewed. We have several emergency certified teachers at our school. I agree that many (not all) of the are as good or better than those with Ed degrees. Possibly because they're further on in life and more mature (mid-30s or older), or just that they aren't jaded by the system yet.

Oh I understand the differences. My post was referencing a comment about Alt Cert teachers.

I’m well aware of the vast amount of emergency certs in use now.....something like 1200 in the state of OK.

I know some districts are now allowed to use certified teachers to teach subjects they’re not certified in because of the shortage.

Ed is a mess right now and if our glorious government doesn’t start to mend it things are going to get a whole lot worse.

Just saying.......



“Crying is for babies, little girls, and men who just had their ears ripped off.”
- Winston Churchill

 

[dennishoddy]

At what point do we just make college grades 13 thru 16? Yea it's gotten that bad. We might as well, that way it can be free.
/sarcasm (for those that can't tell)

We just needed to elect Bernie for that to happen.

 

[Shadowrider]

Anyone got that link that was posted a while back explaining what happened to the lottery money?

I've done a cursory look and found nothing because I was curious for more info. Where I saw it was on a local news station that had video of the state house session and a house member was hammering those wanting to raise taxes with it. He was saying that they know it was "used" but they can't even go back and find what it was spent on. So I guess it went into the general fund?

 

[D. Hargrove]

Mary Fallin's estimated net worth for 2006 is $57002.
Mary Fallin's estimated net worth for 2010 is $3580005
U.S. House of Representatives from Oklahoma's 5th district In office January 3, 2007 – January 3, 2011
I have an idea...