Concealed VS Printing - Is there an issue?

[neverjeg]

I know there is a lot of talk about the issue of ‘printing’ but how big an issue is it really?

Concealment vs printing. I don’t believe the word “concealed” is actually defined in the Oklahoma law and haven’t read anything about someone “printing” coming in contact with law enforcement over the issue. The dictionary says, “to hide; withdraw or remove from observation; cover or keep from sight: He concealed the gun under his coat.”

Personally, I carry a HK USPC 9 OWB in a (Galco M7X Matrix holster) with an undershirt to prevent rubbing skin and a light over shirt. My wife and kids have never noticed, I don’t believe anyone is public has ever noticed, and I can’t see it unless sitting as the grip will poke the shirt a bit – but it is still covered. Does concealed=covered?

How much concealment is enough? Do you worry about printing? Is there anything to worry about if the gun is covered? How little is too little?

 

[TerryMiller]

From the state citation 21-1290-2 Definitions

1. "Concealed handgun" means a loaded or unloaded pistol carried hidden from the detection and view of another person either upon or about the person, in a purse or other container belonging to the person, or in a vehicle which is operated by the person or in which the person is riding as a passenger; and

2. "Pistol" means any derringer, revolver or semiautomatic firearm which:

a. has an overall length of less than sixteen (16) inches and is able to be fully concealed from detection and view,

b. is capable of discharging a projectile composed of any material which may reasonably be expected to be able to cause lethal injury,

c. is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand, and

d. uses either gunpowder, gas or any means of rocket propulsion to discharge the projectile. The definition of pistol for purposes of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act shall not apply to homemade or imitation pistols, flare guns, underwater fishing guns or blank pistols.


Based on definition number 1, referring to "detection and view", I would think that a "printed" weapon under one's clothes would have to be classified as "detected" even if the weapon itself is not in view. Then again, the statute does say "detected AND view", leading one to wonder whether "printing" alone is a problem.

Without an actual ruling from the SDA, I guess we would need to know what a LEO would have been taught regarding the "concealment".

That said, I don't think I would want any printing of my weapon, simply because I wouldn't want some bad guy knowing that I possess the weapon. A simple knock in the head as I left a building might leave me incapacitated enough for the bad guy to then steal my weapon. A "print" would obviously let someone know where the weapon was concealed, making it easy for them to find and grab.

 

[vvvvvvv]

http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=69785

1. "Concealed handgun" means a loaded or unloaded pistol carried hidden from the detection and view of another person either upon or about the person, in a purse or other container belonging to the person, or in a vehicle which is operated by the person or in which the person is riding as a passenger;

So... "hidden from detection" can be pretty broad.

 

[nofearfactor]

I dont think fanny packs should be a good place,even though the gun would be 'hidden' I suppose. Plus they look really g%y. Especially if you have your Crocs on that day. And the Crocs match the fanny packs color. But to each their own.

I wear 3X Tshirts if wearing shorts or wifebeaters under Dickies or Jesse James 2X work shirts,untucked.

 

[Rolando]

With all the cell phone holsters being used these days I think the usual person would not assume a gun is the bulge under the shirt.

 

[Rolando]

...so would a bulge or print be considered not concealed? Maybe unless the profile strongly suggests a pistol?

 

[Jack T.]

yes, covered != concealed. if the normal person can look and say "oh, that's a gun" you are not concealing the firearm.

if Oklahoma would get around to passing an open carry bill, this would be a non-issue.

 

[neverjeg]

I think 'printing' is an internet term, but implies an outline??

If true, could we assume that a bulge does not allow the “detection” of a weapon – just detection of something?

So, bulge carry is okay assuming the bulge does not outline a gun?

I am with those above in not wanting to be discovered and I'm not trying to push the envelope of what is legal. - I'm just wanting to be informed about ... well... what is legal.

 

[neverjeg]

yes, covered != concealed. if the normal person can look and say "oh, that's a gun" you are not concealing the firearm.

if Oklahoma would get around to passing an open carry bill, this would be a non-issue.

And this information is based on?

 

[Burk Cornelius]

Thanks for posting this section Terry. My opinion, for what its worth (not much) is that if your gun is covered and you have made an honest attempt at concealing it, you should not be in violation of the intent of the SDA.

Yes, "detection and view" probably means something different to each person, however, it definitely means something different to someone who carries daily than it does the sheeple!

As an extreme example (which I don't want to test out) if I am carrying OWB and and a tight t-shirt (read: GAY) and you can see the outline of my gun, I really think TECHNICALLY you are not in violation but I don't want to be the guinea pig. Or the guy wearing the gay t-shirt.

BC

From the state citation 21-1290-2 Definitions

1. "Concealed handgun" means a loaded or unloaded pistol carried hidden from the detection and view of another person either upon or about the person, in a purse or other container belonging to the person, or in a vehicle which is operated by the person or in which the person is riding as a passenger; and

2. "Pistol" means any derringer, revolver or semiautomatic firearm which:

a. has an overall length of less than sixteen (16) inches and is able to be fully concealed from detection and view,

b. is capable of discharging a projectile composed of any material which may reasonably be expected to be able to cause lethal injury,

c. is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand, and

d. uses either gunpowder, gas or any means of rocket propulsion to discharge the projectile. The definition of pistol for purposes of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act shall not apply to homemade or imitation pistols, flare guns, underwater fishing guns or blank pistols.


Based on definition number 1, referring to "detection and view", I would think that a "printed" weapon under one's clothes would have to be classified as "detected" even if the weapon itself is not in view. Then again, the statute does say "detected AND view", leading one to wonder whether "printing" alone is a problem.

Without an actual ruling from the SDA, I guess we would need to know what a LEO would have been taught regarding the "concealment".

That said, I don't think I would want any printing of my weapon, simply because I wouldn't want some bad guy knowing that I possess the weapon. A simple knock in the head as I left a building might leave me incapacitated enough for the bad guy to then steal my weapon. A "print" would obviously let someone know where the weapon was concealed, making it easy for them to find and grab.