Crimea votes for secession .

[uncle money bags]

Fair enough. with that in mind what would have been your response to 9/11?

Either you or your Secretary of State TK can answer.

 

[henschman]

You take the Taliban up on their offer to turn Bin Laden and his associates over to you, and put them on trial for murder.

And QUIT ****ING AROUND IN THE MIDDLE EAST and making people like him want to kill us!

 

[uncle money bags]

Understood.

As a follow up, what would be your response to a non nation state declaration of war with follow on kinetic action against the United States in our home land?

 

[henschman]

The first avenue would be to talk to TPTB wherever the aggressors are and ask for cooperation in taking care of them. Make it real clear that if TPTB help or harbor the bad guys, they will be treated as one of them. If they are willing, work with them to kill or capture the bad guys. If they want to be left out of it, go in and take care of business ourselves. If they help the bad guys, kill em all and let God sort em out. Like I said, no nation-building, foreign aid, or other wealth transfer. Also, under no circumstances would we engage in regime change or otherwise try to tell people how to run things in their own country. Go after the bad guys and anyone who helps them without mercy -- leave everyone else alone as much as possible. When ass has been sufficiently kicked, go home and let it be a lesson to anyone else who wants to initiate force against our people.

Also, I would strongly encourage the placement and collection of bounties on anyone who is determined to be responsible for the attacks.

 

[SMS]

Technically, that isn't true. Every human being not enslaved has a choice between self-determination and self-enslavement. There are MANY uncharted areas of the world remaining. You can live "off the grid" and never be bothered with the immorality of governments for the rest of your life.

You have made a conscious choice to remain "in the system", in exchange for the benefits it provides. One of those benefits in particular is this very forum. The only reasons for you to be on here are to obtain information important to you (what others know or think) and as a means to express your consciousness to others. You, me, all of us have a need for validation as an entity. The number of humans on the planet who don't require it on the same level as water, food and shelter is incredibly small.

You have made the conscious decision to accept the corruption and greed of man as a price you pay for safety, comfort and validation. Never assume you are more than you really are, a creature with needs.

For the MFing Win!!!

Postmodernism/Nihilism, while entertaining, is usually chock full of hypocritical B.S. and posited by people trying to look cool or appear "above it all".

 

[mightymouse]

Like I said, no nation-building, foreign aid, or other wealth transfer. Also, under no circumstances would we engage in regime change or otherwise try to tell people how to run things in their own country. Go after the bad guys and anyone who helps them without mercy -- leave everyone else alone as much as possible.

Do you think Middle Eastern oil is and always has been free? Was it just two feet under the sand, requiring only a garden hose and a hand-cranked suction pump to bring it directly to a corner gas station in the U.S? U.S. foreign policy throughout the entire Middle East is and always has been--since the mid 1940s at least--about OIL. And to get OUR oil out from under Their sand, the U.S. had to spend--and continues to spend--a huge amount of money in foreign aid, or development grants, or nation building, or whatever you want to call it, throughout the Middle East. Like it or not, we live in a hydrocarbon based economy, and the maintenence and upkeep of that economy requires that we pay much more than just what we pay at the pump. You can bury your head in the figurative sand, but the lifestyle we as Americans enjoy comes from our willingness to claim as our own the resources of others.

 

[TenBears]

RPI*Chairman Ron Paul has an op-ed in Tuesday’s USA Today wondering why the US is so eager to saddle up for war over a relatively insignificant piece of land thousands of miles away. Dr. Paul is thankful that the bonds of international trade are tempering the passions of the US neocons and warhawks.

Image: Crimea Vote (YouTube).
Writes Dr. Paul in USA Today:
Opponents of the Crimea vote like to point to the illegality of the referendum. But self-determination is a centerpiece of international law.*Article I of the United Nations Charter*points out clearly that the purpose of the U.N. is to “develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples.”
Why does the U.S. care which flag will be hoisted on a small piece of land thousands of miles away?
Critics point to the Russian “occupation” of Crimea as evidence that no fair vote could have taken place. Where were these people when an election held in an Iraq occupied by U.S. troops was called a “triumph of democracy”?
Perhaps the U.S. officials who supported the unconstitutional overthrow of Ukraine’s government should refocus their energies on learning our own Constitution, which does not allow the U.S. government to overthrow governments overseas or send a billion dollars to bail out Ukraine and its international creditors….
international markets rallied on news that the sanctions would be thus far minimal. They understand that trade and economic engagement are the surest roads to peace and prosperity.
Read the whole article*here.

Putin now keeps his ports, on the other hand the EU gets 90% of a country rich in oil, gas, farming and the Ukrainian people get signed on to a tonn of debt. Looks like the grand chessboard is being divided. Where ever John McCain travels it seems a month or two later there is a big event.

http://www.abc15.com/news/national/mccain-travels-to-libya-to-meet-with-rebel-forces

http://ri.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0L...l-forces//RS=^ADAFROzFaXB7LqXX6KTau0AFA0.Eko-

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_12_14/US-Senator-McCain-to-travel-to-Ukraine-2564/

Those are the only three I looked up.

 

[dennishoddy]

Technically, that isn't true. Every human being not enslaved has a choice between self-determination and self-enslavement. There are MANY uncharted areas of the world remaining. You can live "off the grid" and never be bothered with the immorality of governments for the rest of your life.

You have made a conscious choice to remain "in the system", in exchange for the benefits it provides. One of those benefits in particular is this very forum. The only reasons for you to be on here are to obtain information important to you (what others know or think) and as a means to express your consciousness to others. You, me, all of us have a need for validation as an entity. The number of humans on the planet who don't require it on the same level as water, food and shelter is incredibly small.

You have made the conscious decision to accept the corruption and greed of man as a price you pay for safety, comfort and validation. Never assume you are more than you really are, a creature with needs.

As for foreign policy, henschman has it right. Anyone decrying our "inaction" around the world will eventually trot out the tired old mantra than those who say we shouldn't intervene are "isolationists". True isolationism is forever a thing of the past on a national level. The country that has been described as best practicing this in history is China. But that's only if you accept that isolationism equals non-interventionism. They aren't. Even China has practiced trade (non-isolationism) for millennia. What they've also done is jealously guard their internal affairs and avoided intervening in the affairs of others. That is nearing an end though.

Our foreign policy is primarily driven by ego and greed. We NEED to be the World Police, because we foolishly think we're better than everyone else. Underneath that layer, foreign policy is actually at the beck and call of financial empires within our ranks. We've invaded more than one country in order to line the pockets of greedy men. Along the way, the rest of us usually benefit in some way or another, so it’s a win for our egos AND our pocketbooks.

But it’s a loss for our credibility and our moral/ethical currency. Question is, what’s that worth to us these days?

Excellent dissertation, with exception of the colored part. There are a lot of Korean war veterans, that would disagree with this part.

 

[Lurker66]

The first avenue would be to talk to TPTB wherever the aggressors are and ask for cooperation in taking care of them. Make it real clear that if TPTB help or harbor the bad guys, they will be treated as one of them. If they are willing, work with them to kill or capture the bad guys. If they want to be left out of it, go in and take care of business ourselves. If they help the bad guys, kill em all and let God sort em out. Like I said, no nation-building, foreign aid, or other wealth transfer. Also, under no circumstances would we engage in regime change or otherwise try to tell people how to run things in their own country. Go after the bad guys and anyone who helps them without mercy -- leave everyone else alone as much as possible. When ass has been sufficiently kicked, go home and let it be a lesson to anyone else who wants to initiate force against our people.

Also, I would strongly encourage the placement and collection of bounties on anyone who is determined to be responsible for the attacks.

This has been tried before by the other great civilization. It didn't work for Rome either.

I do like the idea though. You see in a perfect world, everyone would respect each other and share resources freely. It may be true that thru sheer violence and threats of retaliation, the rest of the world would leave us alone. But what then?? Our country is enormous, we continue to grow, our resources would eventually dry up. We would be forced to use our might and force other countries to trade with us.

I would go on but I'm sure you get the idea.

 

[TedKennedy]

I believe Rome extended its reach a little farther than its grasp, if I'm not mistaken. Kinda like Britain. Kinda like Nazi Germany.
I'm not sure Hensch's idea has ever been tried for an extended period...our Republic kinda sorta tried it for about 100 years. Seems like every time a working civilization arises that has some success, and an opportunity to better it's citizens' lives, someone gets the bright idea of expansion, or meddling in other affairs, for their own benefit.
I don't see us forcing our trade on anyone, instead we withold trade when we wish to "punish" a regime. If your country is successful, folks will line up to do business with you.
Yes, we rely on resources outside of our borders - does that justify putting someone like the Shah in place in Iran? That guaranteed us low oil prices and huge profits for the companies involved there, at the expense of the Iranians, and the Americans who have been maimed or killed to try to remedy the problems caused by our meddling in that oil patch. Israel? Are we reaping great benefits from letting them ride us for the last 60 years?
Maybe the "tougher than hell, don't mess with me and I won't mess with you" policy won't work. What we've been doing ain't working for sure, I say let's give it a try.