Sanders asked to leave restaurant

[dennishoddy]

Source?

Transgenders:

http://thefederalist.com/2016/07/07...nder-suicide-rate-isnt-due-to-discrimination/

http://thefederalist.com/2016/07/07...nder-suicide-rate-isnt-due-to-discrimination/

Veterans:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/us/suicide-rate-among-veterans-has-risen-sharply-since-2001.html

https://www.publichealth.va.gov/epidemiology/studies/suicide-risk-death-risk-recent-veterans.asp

Interesting stats in the VA report.

 

[druryj]

It seems that there is a push to make the military service something it’s not. The U.S. Military does not exist to support the social experiments of the few. It exists to locate, close with, and destroy the enemy and his will to fight. I want able bodies, alpha males next to me in a firefight or any combat situation. Guys I know who won't quit, will follow the intent as well as the letter of the order, and who can and will shoulder a wounded comrade while continuing to bring the fight. I don't want or need nor do I accept bringing people who carry excess baggage along for the ride.

I saw a lot of guys wash out at various things, almost always with some excuse they had, never it seems because they simply couldn't hack it. It was always because someone did them wrong, or they had some problem beyond their control or whatever. The military is not for everyone; get over it. Combat is not for the faint hearted.

Its okay to have opinions, but those of us who have really been in the armed forces and in combat often hold to a particularly strong set of values. if you aren't one of us...well, your opinions are just not worth that much.

 

[Glocktogo]

It seems that there is a push to make the military service something it’s not. The U.S. Military does not exist to support the social experiments of the few. It exists to locate, close with, and destroy the enemy and his will to fight. I want able bodies, alpha males next to me in a firefight or any combat situation. Guys I know who won't quit, will follow the intent as well as the letter of the order, and who can and will shoulder a wounded comrade while continuing to bring the fight. I don't want or need nor do I accept bringing people who carry excess baggage along for the ride.

I saw a lot of guys wash out at various things, almost always with some excuse they had, never it seems because they simply couldn't hack it. It was always because someone did them wrong, or they had some problem beyond their control or whatever. The military is not for everyone; get over it. Combat is not for the faint hearted.

Its okay to have opinions, but those of us who have really been in the armed forces and in combat often hold to a particularly strong set of values. if you aren't one of us...well, your opinions are just not worth that much.

In times past, it was (IMO) a good idea to conduct some social experimentation in order to expand the likely pool of applicants (and in some cases, draftees). Inclusiveness has strengthened our military overall, as it's a better cross representation of our society as a whole. However, there's a law of diminishing returns and I think transgender is it. The juice simply isn't worth the squeeze. My personal opinion is that many (not all) of them enter simply to challenge authority, and/or get Uncle Sugar to pay for their expensive treatments and surgeries. That's strictly my opinion based on news reports and word of mouth, not statistical data.

Right or wrong, I think it's a general disqualifier. There are a great many ways to serve your country, so one should choose what's most important in their life wisely.

 

[rc508pir]

Source?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...s-face-high-rates--suicide-attempts/31626633/

Several sources but I picked the one that was most liberal so no one could say that it was just conservative outlets being biased using figures to support exclusion from military service. And actually USAToday has the number at 46% (highest I have seen). Those numbers do include attempts and not just successful suicides.

Vet suicide rate, I got from the Army Times last year was at 2.6%

For general population rates I have seen anywhere from 1.1% to 4.6%

 

[Tanis143]

It seems that there is a push to make the military service something it’s not. The U.S. Military does not exist to support the social experiments of the few. It exists to locate, close with, and destroy the enemy and his will to fight. I want able bodies, alpha males next to me in a firefight or any combat situation. Guys I know who won't quit, will follow the intent as well as the letter of the order, and who can and will shoulder a wounded comrade while continuing to bring the fight. I don't want or need nor do I accept bringing people who carry excess baggage along for the ride.

I saw a lot of guys wash out at various things, almost always with some excuse they had, never it seems because they simply couldn't hack it. It was always because someone did them wrong, or they had some problem beyond their control or whatever. The military is not for everyone; get over it. Combat is not for the faint hearted.

Its okay to have opinions, but those of us who have really been in the armed forces and in combat often hold to a particularly strong set of values. if you aren't one of us...well, your opinions are just not worth that much.

In other words my opinion doesn't mean crap because I didn't serve past my two years at WP. Good to know.

 

[druryj]

No, I didn’t say it wasn’t worth crap, I said it isn’t worth that much. See, you are forming and expressing a strong opinion based on a very narrow and limited point of view. You can have whatever opinion you want, but unless you’ve really been in, well, its like anything else. You can read about, see it on TV, in the movies, etc. but it’s not the same thing.


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[rc508pir]

In other words my opinion doesn't mean crap because I didn't serve past my two years at WP. Good to know.

You're not a veteran. 2 years at West Point isn't military service

 

[druryj]

In other words my opinion doesn't mean crap because I didn't serve past my two years at WP. Good to know.

I have an idea. Pick a topic in which you actually have experience or expertise and post up. You may very well find many folks to be a lot more receptive to it than trying to tell a bunch of old vets about how we oughta have gays and trannies serve in combat units. You get my drift? I mean, surely there is something that you are really good at or something in which you have real world experience. Try it; I bet you’d be a lot happier.


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[Tanis143]

I have an idea. Pick a topic in which you actually have experience or expertise and post up. You may very well find many folks to be a lot more receptive to it than trying to tell a bunch of old vets about how we oughta have gays and trannies serve in combat units. You get my drift? I mean, surely there is something that you are really good at or something in which you have real world experience. Try it; I bet you’d be a lot happier.


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All I can do is shrug my shoulders. I see the same arguments here that historically were used to try and bar black men from service. I did agree that transsexuals shouldn't serve as they need constant hormone treatment. To me that is the same as any other medical condition that requires constant medication. The rest, well we will have to agree to disagree on this and let history play out. And yes, I've been a bit combative to some, but simply because I was told my opinion doesn't matter. Others I have had discussions with and yes, have actually changed my opinion given new information.

And rc, you may not feel I've earned the right to be a veteran, but my two years were active duty. This isn't the citidel. I had to swear the same oath any other soldier takes, I followed the same regs from USMJ (plus a few others specific to WP). The only thing that was different was our dress uniforms. I actually do have a DD214. Had I not torn my acl in my first year I would have gone enlisted after I was removed from the academy. Due to missing two fitness tests I was told I would have to leave then sign up. In retrospect I should have done this, however I probably would not have met my wife. I am proud of the time I got to be in the Army. Met a lot of great people and had some fun. Not to mention I got to walk the halls that many of America's greatest generals walked. That feeling of history is one thing I cherished about my time there. It was my one big failure in life and took me a few years to process it and come to terms with it. So please, don't try to diminish it as irrelevant.

 

[DavidMcmillan]

You know, opinions are very rarely changed in an interweb forum. But opinions of people usually are. Sometimes its best just to close the keyboard and read only.

Oh, and I think Sarah should be able to eat anywhere she wants!