Gunshow admission prices and how to start a gun show questions

[Navy_chief]

Guys,
We have been seeing lately how much they are raping the people to attend these shows. So looking at rough figures they have a pretty good racket going making some serious money.

Let’s just say last weekend’s show brought in 5,000 people x $6 so the upfront profit was $30,000 for the weekend. Now you have to deduct payroll, building rent, advertisement and I assume some kind of liability insurance so assume they still profited $15,000 for a weekend?

So the people that put on these shows I.E. Claude Hall, RK, Metcalf, G&S productions all seem to have a monopoly of these shows and seem to do very well with making money.

Now if you increase the price to $12 they made $60,000 for a weekend show and once again that is assuming only 5,000 people could be a lot more or less only they know?


So here is my question what does it take to put on a gun show if I wanted to have one in a local community building what would it take?

 

[vvvvvvv]

Guys,
We have been seeing lately how much they are raping the people to attend these shows. So looking at rough figures they have a pretty good racket going making some serious money.

Let’s just say last weekend’s show brought in 5,000 people x $6 so the upfront profit was $30,000 for the weekend. Now you have to deduct payroll, building rent, advertisement and I assume some kind of liability insurance so assume they still profited $15,000 for a weekend?

So the people that put on these shows I.E. Claude Hall, RK, Metcalf, G&S productions all seem to have a monopoly of these shows and seem to do very well with making money.

Now if you increase the price to $12 they made $60,000 for a weekend show and once again that is assuming only 5,000 people could be a lot more or less only they know?


So here is my question what does it take to put on a gun show if I wanted to have one in a local community building what would it take?

I can tell you that your profit margin figure is nowhere near accurate if based solely on the gate.

Just to give you an idea of rental fees for some shows.

Advertising is dual purpose, and with dual purpose advertising even $15K won't get you very far (and is actually one of the things that I believe contributes to the dwindling quality of gun shows). Your advertising has to cater to certain groups of firearms owners, buyers, gawkers, etc. not so that you can have a large head count at the gate, but so that your vendors will find your show to be a profitable-enough venue to keep returning so that your patrons keep returning to see what your vendors have to offer. Putting up a billboard at the I-40/44 interchange and posting tiny yard signs next to on-ramps doesn't build interest for new patrons which is why you see the same ol' same ol' types show up time and time again. I know that before I got on this forum, I figured the OKC gun shows were some kind of scam because I never heard of them outside of seeing the yard signs next to off ramps. To a young country boy like me, that screams "scam, stay away". That, and the poorly-designed circus-style posters that look like they've been reused every year for the last decade with only the dates changed... and then there's the websites that come up for some of them when you hit Google ("updated" timestamps don't matter to the microwave generation... if it looks like 1997, then it hasn't been in business since 1997 even if it says "Copyright 2012" or "last modified January 17, 2012"... you get one second to attract attention, and another 5 seconds to keep it, and that's it). <sales pitch>$300 per year (plus a one-time $400 setup fee) can get you a modern website that allows you to easily edit content from any web browser (event registration and billing available for additional fees)... ASK ABOUT A DEMO!</sales pitch>

I'd probably spend some good hard-earned money at a gun show - even if the price at the table is a little higher than in the store (I'm a greedy bastard: an hour spent shopping is an hour I could have billed at probably 3x what I "saved" by shopping, or more) - if I knew that I was going to find what I want before paying the cover charge. I'm not going to spend even $1.00 to go through a gate that I believe I will likely come out of empty-handed.

Additionally, expenses aren't only incurred on the weekend. I'm not a gun show planner, and I'm not an event planner, but I've seen enough behind the scenes of event logistics to know that a weekend event probably has around four weeks of planning behind it - especially if they are trying to do something to actively attract new or retain old people to their recurring event. And the more people you expect, the more planning that has to be done. And you are paying people every step of the way.

Now, if you told me that my gross margin on a weekend event that I spent a month or more putting together was going to be $15K, I'd say take your proposition elsewhere. The way I look at it, part of that $15K has to go in my pocket. Part of it Uncle Sam has to choke on. And a lot of it needs to be reinvested into the next edition of the event to ensure its success. If I worked 60 hour weeks in the month leading up to the event to make sure it went off without a hitch, I'd want to pocket at minimum 6K after taxes. Allowing for Uncle Sam's high-fiber meal, that leaves $5K+/- as a cushion for unforeseen issues and, if no issues come up, to reinvest into the event.

 

[peanut]

They also charge each vendor for each table.
Idk how much they are charging to rent the place, but maybe find that out and find out how much table fees are.
You can start there.

 

[HMFIC]

They also charge each vendor for each table.
Idk how much they are charging to rent the place, but maybe find that out and find out how much table fees are.
You can start there.

Tables in Tulsa at the last show this weekend were $61 each or $50 if paid in advance. Vendors who buy a block of tables (half island or more) usually get a break but they will still pay at LEAST $25 a table even if they have 3 or more islands like TK's setup. I think the tables were cheaper in OKC this last weekend. They do vary even between shows by the same promoter depending on the building location, etc...

Some people who are in the know said that Wannenmacher makes $1M profit per show, but then again that's the Wannenmacher show... the other promoters don't make anywhere near that.

 

[GlockPride]

I don't want to pay $12 for the privilege to spend more. Therefore, I don't go. Even the world famous Wannamacher's is not that expensive.
Make it off your vendors, concessions or something else, but not me coming through your door. I understand that these must be expensive to put on, but about $10 is my max and would rather pay $5-6.

 

[dt405gt]

I will not go to another gunshow. I agree with Veggiemeat. Last time I went, it was because I was looking for a specific item ( my colt new agent). I won't go anymore. There are times we spend $24 (my wife and I) just to get in the door. I can usually find a better deal online. So many of the shows in okc are terrible. I went 3 weeks ago looking for a Mossberg 590a1 and couldn't find one. Shopping from the lazy boy is more fun.

 

[mr ed]

Wannamachers-
3 days rent $15,000 per day = $45k
3300 tables and 6000+ chairs = $33k
advertising budget $150k+
insurance ? multi-million policy $15k?
spends a ton of money traveling all over the country
trying to get good dealers to come in.
employees about 50 $100k

total about $350k

revenue
table rent varies according to size and whether displaying or selling.
lets say $3300 x 100 = $330k

admission claims 50k, but really more like 30k full price and 10k discounted or free tickets.
30k x $12 = $360k

tables & public = $690k
expenses = $350k
__________________________
net taxable profit $ 340k
uncle sams cut probably leaves him with $200k per show x 2 per year.

What you don't realize is it has taken him almost 50 years to reach this point.
During the 50's, 60's, 70's, he had the largest shows around and they were only the size of todays R-K and Metcalf shows.

If you want to try this. do it the way everybody else has.
start in small towns with one at the N.G. armory or community center.
with a 100 table show you can start as follows
rent $1000-1500
tables $1000 or maybe free if building has some
advertising $3k-5k
insurance $3k-5k
help and security $1500
total $8500-14k

income will be ???
100 tables $40 x 100 =$4k
admission 1k-2k x $5 = $5k-10k

you would maybe make a few bucks if you watched your money real close or lose your ass like most who have tried and failed.

 

[Biggsly]

I don't mind paying $5 or $6 to go in and look around. At $12, its not worth it. I seen Ruger factory 25 rd mags from $25-35 at the RK show. I just bought one online for $19. Most of what I am doing is killing time and looking for small stuff.

 

[mr ed]

I don't mind paying $5 or $6 to go in and look around. At $12, its not worth it. I seen Ruger factory 25 rd mags from $25-35 at the RK show. I just bought one online for $19. Most of what I am doing is killing time and looking for small stuff.

Therein lays the problem with todays gunshows. since the tables, hotel rooms, gas etc. costs so much.
You won't find a good selection of small items at a show anymore, especially gunparts.
the expense of going to the show is so great and profit on small items so low that it is easier to stay home and sell them online.

Don't fault the dealers for the high priced Ruger mags.
online dealers buy them 1000 at a time for about $10 and sell them for $19.
local dealers buy them for $17-19, 2 or 5 at a time plus freight and mark them up to $25-30
most likely the local guy is making less on his than the web dealer.

 

[JB Books]

I think you are underestimating what Wanamacher makes on those shows. He is not spending $150K per show for ads.