Water well/pump pressure question

[perfor8]

Ok.
Water doesn’t compress.
You have to have an air chamber or some bladder to have any reasonable pressure stability.
If you just have pipe and water and pump as soon as your pump comes on the pressure hits past peak.

OR. You can pump to an elevated reservoir or tank and then hydrostatic head supplies the pressure. That’s the reason you have water towers.

It sounds like your bladder is flat or the screen on your pump may be stopped up (if it has one)

When your pump comes on the bladder will compress to 1/2 it’s empty volume when you double the pressure.

If it holds two gallons and is pressured to 16 psi it will hold one gallon at 32 psi 1/2 gallon at 64 psi, etc.

I’m sure you will hear otherwise but water doesn’t compress. Try to compress it goes wrong quickly.

Water compresses, just not enough to be useful for domestic water supply systems.

In order to obtain 50 psi using head pressure, the water tower would have to elevate the water 115 feet... and that's before accounting for friction loss.

 

[okietool]

Water compresses, just not enough to be useful for domestic water supply systems.

In order to obtain 50 psi using head pressure, the water tower would have to elevate the water 115 feet... and that's before accounting for friction loss.

No. Anyone with any experience in positive displacement pumps knows, water is a NonNewtonian Fluid, it does not
compress.
Fluid weight in pounds per gallon, times true vertical height times .052, thats a static pressure, pressure losses are almost nonexistent at low flow rates, there are calculations for those too, but they get involved and I'm not up for the math. And the water tower doesn't need to be 115 feet tall, just 115 above the exit point that you're getting the water.

This is one thing I am very familiar with and have dealt with every day for 40+ years. That was what I got well paid for.

If there are any pumping service guys or gals on here or drilling engineers, feel free to weigh in.

If water compressed, you wouldn't be able to test casing strings or pipelines.

Water Compressibility | U.S. Geological Survey

Flow rate pressure losses calculations.

 

[cowadle]

Ok.
Water doesn’t compress.
You have to have an air chamber or some bladder to have any reasonable pressure stability.
If you just have pipe and water and pump as soon as your pump comes on the pressure hits past peak.

OR. You can pump to an elevated reservoir or tank and then hydrostatic head supplies the pressure. That’s the reason you have water towers.

It sounds like your bladder is flat or the screen on your pump may be stopped up (if it has one)

When your pump comes on the bladder will compress to 1/2 it’s empty volume when you double the pressure.

If it holds two gallons and is pressured to 16 psi it will hold one gallon at 32 psi 1/2 gallon at 64 psi, etc.

I’m sure you will hear otherwise but water doesn’t compress. Try to compress it goes wrong quickly.

with a positive displacement pump as in some rv services the pump has it's own pressure switch and no pressure tank. the pump will pressurize the supply line to whatever the set pressure is and then shut off. as soon as someone cracks a valve or shower the immediate drop in pressure turns the pump on and it will deliver it's rated gpm at head. if this is enough gpm then all you will notice is a very quick delay then water as long as the pump doesn't build up enough pressure to trigger the pressure switch. then as soon as the valve is closed the pump rapidly builds pressure and triggers the pressure switch and shuts off.

 

[okietool]

with a positive displacement pump as in some rv services the pump has it's own pressure switch and no pressure tank. the pump will pressurize the supply line to whatever the set pressure is and then shut off. as soon as someone cracks a valve or shower the immediate drop in pressure turns the pump on and it will deliver it's rated gpm at head. if this is enough gpm then all you will notice is a very quick delay then water as long as the pump doesn't build up enough pressure to trigger the pressure switch. then as soon as the valve is closed the pump rapidly builds pressure and triggers the pressure switch and shuts off.

Yes. It does all that with out compressing water. If there was any compression it would take longer for the pump to start.

The only positive displacement pumps I have ever known work like an engine’s pistons. They use swabs or plungers.

I think there’s a difference in defining positive displacement.

 

[cowadle]

Yes. It does all that with out compressing water. If there was any compression it would take longer for the pump to start.

The only positive displacement pumps I have ever known work like an engine’s pistons. They use swabs or plungers.

I think there’s a difference in defining positive displacement.

the shurflo brand makes a series of positive displacement pumps that aren't piston type. i guess a person could manifold several of these together and control them all with one pressure switch in order to get the gpm up there. there are some i know that pump 5 gpm or more. i have used similar systems to the above described just have to balance the flow in gpm with the shower head so that the system will deliver enough gpm without tripping the high side shut off. a person can use an oraphice in the shower head to restrict flow a little and drillit out a little at a time to fine tune.

 

[cowadle]

https://www.pentair.com/en-us/brands/shurflo.html
they even make a submersible that you can suspend in a well or pond in this case. but it is pricey

 

[perfor8]

No. Anyone with any experience in positive displacement pumps knows, water is a NonNewtonian Fluid, it does not
compress.
Fluid weight in pounds per gallon, times true vertical height times .052, thats a static pressure, pressure losses are almost nonexistent at low flow rates, there are calculations for those too, but they get involved and I'm not up for the math. And the water tower doesn't need to be 115 feet tall, just 115 above the exit point that you're getting the water.

This is one thing I am very familiar with and have dealt with every day for 40+ years. That was what I got well paid for.

If there are any pumping service guys or gals on here or drilling engineers, feel free to weigh in.

If water compressed, you wouldn't be able to test casing strings or pipelines.

Water Compressibility | U.S. Geological Survey

Flow rate pressure losses c

No. Anyone with any experience in positive displacement pumps knows, water is a NonNewtonian Fluid, it does not
compress.
Fluid weight in pounds per gallon, times true vertical height times .052, thats a static pressure, pressure losses are almost nonexistent at low flow rates, there are calculations for those too, but they get involved and I'm not up for the math. And the water tower doesn't need to be 115 feet tall, just 115 above the exit point that you're getting the water.

This is one thing I am very familiar with and have dealt with every day for 40+ years. That was what I got well paid for.

If there are any pumping service guys or gals on here or drilling engineers, feel free to weigh in.

If water compressed, you wouldn't be able to test casing strings or pipelines.

Water Compressibility | U.S. Geological Survey

Flow rate pressure losses calculations.

Sorry, no. All matter is compressible.

LOL, quote from the article you linked:

"Yet, in industrial applications water can be tremendously compressed and used to do things like cut through metal (especially if an abrasive material is added to the water and the water is hot)."

 

[okietool]

Manifolding pumps lowers the efficiency and pressure on all to the max of the weakest one.
I’ve used submersibles we used REDA pumps. I think they are reasonable common and for personal use they are pricey.

I’ve also used submersible centrifugals that work really great if you want 1000 gpm.

 

[Chuckie]

Sorry, no. All matter is compressible.

LOL, quote from the article you linked:

"Yet, in industrial applications water can be tremendously compressed and used to do things like cut through metal (especially if an abrasive material is added to the water and the water is hot)."

Don't confuse pressure with compression. A 'power washer' does not get its' ability to clean from compressing the water (denser?), but rather from increasing the speed (pressure) of the water that leaves the nozzle. A hydro-cutter works the same way. The fluid is not compressed, but pressurized (sped-up) to increase its' abrasive ability to the point of being able to cut through a material.
FACTOID: Did you know that water is the only naturally occuring liquid that expands rather than contracts as it freezes?

 

[tynyphil]

I have an RV style water pump in my food truck and an extra (backup) on the shelf that I considered giving a try but I think those are meant to draw water from a non-pressurized water tank. I've thought about having my current pump fill a tank and then use an "always on" pump to run the shower from that but I can't figure out how I'd shut my pump off using a non-pressurized tank. If I had room for like a 300 gallon tank I'd just fill it manually occasionally but I've only got room for about 30-40 gallons so the well pump would need to be filling it at the same time were using the supply of water.

That's the type pump I mentioned for my off grid. the pump will cut off automatically when the set pressure is achieved ( via no water being pumped ) as long as there is no water leaving the system it stays off. I think you could 'feed' the pump with your low pressure line as well as a no pressure tank.