You still haven't demonstrated (a) any evidence that we aren't born with conscience and morality, or (b) how to test for it. If you have reason to believe the MMPI does it, please explain.
Thought I'd see if you were paying attention.
First, I never said we aren't born with conscience. I said we aren't born with a conscience. As for the MMPI, don't take my word for what it is. Look it up for yourself, and if I'm wrong, show me where I'm wrong.
The works of B. F. Skinner might be worthwhile as well.
Look up how we learn morals, too.
Woody
Nice try. I'm quite familiar with the MMPI and the works of Skinner. You made a claim (i.e., "No one is born with a conscience or morality.") and have yet to back it up with any evidence.
I do not believe we are born with a fully functioning set of morals or conscience either, but most everyone is born with the ability to develop morals. Babies and young children do not know wrong from right but have the capability to grow in body and mind. I believe that everyone of developed age has a conscience (excluding the mentally handicapped or those with a severe mental disorder). Morals are a code we develop to appease our conscience, and sometimes to glorify God. Morals are heavily weighted towards those shared with faith, family, friends, government, where you call home and society as a whole. Yes, people can develop their own moral code, but it is unlikely to be unique. Even an individual code is taken from bits and pieces from other morals. You may take some from the bible, Jack Reacher, Game of Thrones, and the Dude, but it comes from somewhere you have experienced.
I believe it was Skinner who proved it. I'd say to read up on his work, but then you are familiar with his work and already know.
One way to identify it is there is no treatment, no drug or operation that will cure a sociopath. It is a psychosis. It's mental and not a physical defect. But then you know that.
People who were ignored and/or abused from infancy will likely end up as sociopaths. That I have seen for myself.
Woody
No, Skinner didn't "prove" it...in fact, he ignored nearly everything in the invisible "black box" we call cognition. And it's clear you don't understand the basic etiology of sociopathy, let alone the problem with using an outlier as "proof" of normality. I'm just going to assume you are making guesses about these things...guesses based on very outdated models in psychology.
I went from page 1 to here, like I do often do when I'm late to a large thread, but have to exercise my Internet rights to the soap box, haha.
I'm an atheistand I'd say I'm a very moral person. I get my right and wrong from, basically the golden rule. That's not taking from the bible, or anything with Christian roots. Is a 'rule' that crosses all religious and secular boundaries and centers on human decency. Most religions are cents around this in one way or another, as are most (or at least many, since plenty are bat **** crazy)secular philosophies. Call it divine spark if you must, but I call it universal decency. Each of us has a natural right to exist as a free, rational individual. again, I say natural, some say divine. Arguing this is like arguing creation vs evolution. I'm not going to convince a believer (pics a faith, any faith), and they're not going to convince me to the contrary. I've found that changing things as deep as this go beyond beer conversations and message forums. The person has to get curious about one side and do some soul searching to find their answer. I'm not saying that I think all 'answers' are right, as I believe moral relativity is horse ****, but free people draw their own conclusions based on their own decisions.
I'm a big fan of Ayn Rand, and The Virtue of Selfishness, as well as Atlas Shrugged lay out my thoughts quite well. Luckily someone put the time into laying out what is been thinking all along much better than I can, and then wrote a few books about it.
Lastly, I'll say I'm atheist, not anti-theist. I don't think religion is a bad thing, I just don't buy it. I think most provide good guidelines for living with other people And are an overall positive for the world. Not all of them, but most.
I'm an atheistand I'd say I'm a very moral person. I get my right and wrong from, basically the golden rule. That's not taking from the bible, or anything with Christian roots. Is a 'rule' that crosses all religious and secular boundaries and centers on human decency. Most religions are cents around this in one way or another, as are most (or at least many, since plenty are bat **** crazy)secular philosophies. Call it divine spark if you must, but I call it universal decency. Each of us has a natural right to exist as a free, rational individual. again, I say natural, some say divine. Arguing this is like arguing creation vs evolution. I'm not going to convince a believer (pics a faith, any faith), and they're not going to convince me to the contrary. I've found that changing things as deep as this go beyond beer conversations and message forums. The person has to get curious about one side and do some soul searching to find their answer. I'm not saying that I think all 'answers' are right, as I believe moral relativity is horse ****, but free people draw their own conclusions based on their own decisions.
I'm a big fan of Ayn Rand, and The Virtue of Selfishness, as well as Atlas Shrugged lay out my thoughts quite well. Luckily someone put the time into laying out what is been thinking all along much better than I can, and then wrote a few books about it.
Lastly, I'll say I'm atheist, not anti-theist. I don't think religion is a bad thing, I just don't buy it. I think most provide good guidelines for living with other people And are an overall positive for the world. Not all of them, but most.
