Chattanooga TN Marine Recruiting Office Shooting

[Dale00]

So we had to get rid of it ...

The answer of how to deal with the threat of "home-grown" Jihadists and their support network is difficult. I would be careful abut casting this as an "us versus them" conflict in which our innate goodness or wisdom shows us the way and justifies how "we" decide to deal with an major part of the world's population following a particular religion. And in which all of "them" are the same.

I believe we have an obligation to actively resist evil and we need a lot more of this resistance. But I'm going to rely on God's wisdom and plan for dealing with all those non-jihadists following the misguided path of Islam. I'm also going to remember that "Vengeance belongs to the Lord" and not us - it is much better that way.

The great majority of muslims are amenable to reason and love. I heard a presentation by a missionary couple who had worked at a Christian hospital in one of the emirate countries.They were allowed to openly call their hospital a Christian Evangelism facility and to openly worship as Christians in a muslim country. Why? Because they had been giving medical care to the people of the country for many decades. The leader of the emirate had been born in that hospital. Have you ever heard this story on the news? Of course not. Please, please, please remember that we only hear the negative side of things on the news and in the media. Do not let this negativity color your opinions.

 

[Dale00]

Reasonable actions have been taken by several governors. What will the federal government do? Put an armed security guard at every recruiting station? Of course that won't work - they will either find a more vulnerable military target, attack families of military members or do something else. The fed response is probably going to be too little, too late.

Governors in several states ordered National Guardsmen to be armed in the wake of an attack on two military facilities in Tennessee, and Florida Gov. Rick Scott went a step further Saturday by immediately relocated recruiters to armories.

Scott ordered the Guardsmen to be armed, as did governors in Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas and Oklahoma.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-07-18-14-43-54

 

[Sanford]

Fallin spokesman Alex Weintz says without the state authority, National Guardsmen revert to federal policies, which call for them to be unarmed.

 

[Sanford]

Personally I think it would be as big a mistake to arm all military as I think it would be to arm only military LE and security personnel. To my way of thinking the best and simplest solution would be to have federal facilities honor state-issued carry permits for all military and civilians.

 

[nemesis]

I'm also going to remember that "Vengeance belongs to the Lord" and not us - it is much better that way.

You're misusing the passage to which you allude. Romans 12:19 tells the individual Christian to not take personal vengeance upon wrongdoers. That has nothing to do with self defense for oneself or one's family, BTW. That's not what the passage discusses.

Romans 12:19 is a verse in a larger context that includes Romans 13. Romans 13 says the individual is to defer to the government for vengeance and retribution. The government is to be a terror to the evil workers we're discussing. The word for terror is "phobos" which is the root of "phobia." It's translated "alarm, fright, exceedingly, terror." This is how our government is supposed to respond to threats to our way of life.

When Gaddafi was sponsoring terrorism during Reagan's presidency, Reagan ordered a strike on Gaddafi's home. Gaddafi was so terrified that we bypassed his defenses he had procured from the Russians, terrorism sponsored by Gaddafi dropped off to nothing.

This is how our government is supposed to behave. You say leave it to God. God says that's why He instituted government.

Rom 13:4: For he (government) is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he (again, government) beareth not the sword (an instrument of death) in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

God executes His vengeance, just like you said, except He does so through a competent government.

Our government, unfortunately, is incompetent. Our Commander In Chief is deliberately demoralizing our military while simultaneously bringing our enemies here by the millions.

 

[Dale00]

You're misusing the passage to which you allude. Romans 12:19 tells the individual Christian to not take personal vengeance upon wrongdoers. That has nothing to do with self defense for oneself or one's family, BTW. That's not what the passage discusses.

Romans 12:19 is a verse in a larger context that includes Romans 13. Romans 13 says the individual is to defer to the government for vengeance and retribution. The government is to be a terror to the evil workers we're discussing. The word for terror is "phobos" which is the root of "phobia." It's translated "alarm, fright, exceedingly, terror." This is how our government is supposed to respond to threats to our way of life.

When Gaddafi was sponsoring terrorism during Reagan's presidency, Reagan ordered a strike on Gaddafi's home. Gaddafi was so terrified that we bypassed his defenses he had procured from the Russians, terrorism sponsored by Gaddafi dropped off to nothing.

This is how our government is supposed to behave. You say leave it to God. God says that's why He instituted government.

God executes His vengeance, just like you said, except He does so through a competent government.

Our government, unfortunately, is incompetent. Our Commander In Chief is deliberately demoralizing our military while simultaneously bringing our enemies here by the millions.

Interesting. Thank you. I should have gone to source and looked at the context as you did instead of relying on an oft repeated out of context meaning.

Our problems with Islam and our own culture are daunting. We need to be seeking God's wisdom and will and not our own.

 

[dennishoddy]

Personally I think it would be as big a mistake to arm all military as I think it would be to arm only military LE and security personnel. To my way of thinking the best and simplest solution would be to have federal facilities honor state-issued carry permits for all military and civilians.

A mistake to allow an US citizen to be armed? A big mistake to arm all military?

All of this BS has been since the 90's. Prior, to that, reserve units were allowed to have and fire M16's stored in the local Armory's. After the reg started by HW Bush, and implemented by Clinton, those arms have been removed from local armories. The NG and Reserve units cannot come armed to any immediate conflict unless those weapons are brought to them.
They are basically unarmed in general as well as at the recruiting stations.

 

[druryj]

A mistake to allow an US citizen to be armed? A big mistake to arm all military?

All of this BS has been since the 90's. Prior, to that, reserve units were allowed to have and fire M16's stored in the local Armory's. After the reg started by HW Bush, and implemented by Clinton, those arms have been removed from local armories. The NG and Reserve units cannot come armed to any immediate conflict unless those weapons are brought to them.
They are basically unarmed in general as well as at the recruiting stations.

...like fish in a barrel...

 

[farmerbyron]

My heart just absolutely breaks to learn of the loss of another American life to this senseless tragedy. I hope the killer rots in hell. We are at war; but not at war with a nation or another country, but at war with an ideology; a religion, a fanatically obsessed group of inhuman low-life butchers. The problem in stopping this is that the enemy is not within a defined locale. We can't easily and always identify them before they strike. Even back in the '91 Gulf War, we were fighting a country; at least to some large extent; Iraq. Now, the enemy, ISIS (and let's not forget Al Qaeda), are here; there; everywhere. They walk among us. They are spread across the U.S. and all over Western Europe. They recruit young, easily influenced people world wide to attack us. We don't know where the next attack will come from. All we know is that it will come, that it will continue. An savage like that scum who beheaded the woman here in Oklahoma City was influenced by radical islam. Whether he was a card carrying member of ISIS or not has little bearing. He was influenced by the ideology/religion and he acted on it. Beheading a middle-aged woman in OKC in the name of islam absolutely cannot be God's will. No friggin' way. So; how do we fight and defeat this enemy? Right now, all we normally do is react after an attack. We can only react. Oh I am sure that there have been lots of attacks that the FBI/CIA/Locals/Others have stopped that we haven't heard about, but even one act, like the above mentioned beheading, is too many! The only way to completey stop the violence and killing of U.S. citizens and others by the fundamental islamic murdering scum is put an end to the ideology/religion itself. In other words...(some years down the road)..."Daddy, what was islam?" "Well son, islam was a hell-born ideology, that some called a "religion" that we had to eradicate, like a termite nest, or a snake with many heads. It had spread all over the world. So we had to get rid of it in order to survive". It was a "religion" that preached hate and death, son, so we had to just do away with it, and a lot of people had to die so that YOU, my son, could grow up here in our country in relative safety". "Did we have to kill all of them, Daddy?" "Yes son, sadly, we did".

Is this the answer? Are we doomed to be defeated? Are they just going to keep chipping away at us, murdering us in our homes, businesses, churches and schools?

We could even call it kind of a "final solution".

 

[farmerbyron]

And when the son asks his dad how it happened. How all those people died. What is the answer in your story?

Are we talking glass parking lots? I mean it would be a quick way to do a lot, but does have a lot of drawbacks. Aside from the literal fallout, it would render a lot of places uninhabitable for a while. Not to mention that it'd probably take a lot of non-muslims with it.

It'd also be tough to use on any european urban centers. I'm guessing that'd have to be more of a door to door type of response, right? I bet they could utilize the rail system over there. But where would they go to die? We talking camps first or some new approach? They do have a proven track record over there of how to deal with those of a specific religion.

But i guess the dad could just whip out his weapon of course and show the kid the notches on the handle, right? "This right here son was the grandmother down the street," he'd recall.

I'm just curious how the death of 1.6 billion people would happen in this story. Or are we assuming they all wouldn't need to die? Could we trust the converts, though?

Don't think Donner, only act in defense of the motherland.