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You'd be able to load much faster from a side saddle. If you need more then 10 rounds from a shotgun then 25 ain't gonna be enough either.
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^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^
You'd be able to load much faster from a side saddle. If you need more then 10 rounds from a shotgun then 25 ain't gonna be enough either.
Guys, I'm sure you mean well with your criticism of my little ole 'bandoleer' & suggestions for my training...but for one thing, I'm not going to disclose my entire past or training on this forum... nor all my preparations for home defense. And with all due respect, I think you've been watching way to many 3-gun competitions on TV or are way to hung-up with 'toys' & 'speed' on the range... instead of preparing yourselves for actual real world life & death scenarios.
I wish you could attend a month of 10 hour a day training at a federal facility located at a abandoned military base's housing edition that has been turned into a shoot / don't shoot training facility. Where they have live actors in full street dress, make-up / props & fake blood... with training knives, shotguns, rifles & pistols [and paint guns so you can see where you were hit] in every imaginable civilian / military scenario you might encounter in [any town] U.S.A.
On & off-duty scenarios. In-door training [such as you would encounter with intruders breaking into your home when your off-duty in bed or on the couch watching TV or at the dinner table], situations where you & your family have been taken hostage, and out-door training in the street [such as going door-to-door clearing houses & business while snipers take pot-shots at you, controlling rioters and looters, or what appeared to be a auto accident / or someone having a medical emergency.. but it suddenly turns out to be a ambush to steal your weapon and valuables]. It opened my eyes to training in real world scenerios.. versus relying on range training for accuracy & speed.
Until you have been in a training situation such as one where for instance you or a partner have had a sweet innocent looking friendly 13 yr old boy suddenly stick a 4" training knife in your kidneys w/ imitation blood running down into your underwear and then take your weapon & wallet...or had a battered, bloodied & bruised 16 yr old pregnant girl who hysterically screams she has just been beaten & raped suddenly pull a firearm out of a padded bundle under her blouse / T-shirt and shoot you in the back point blank as you are securing the scene and robs you of your weapon & wallet... because it never dawned on you that she wasn't really pregnant or badly hurt & that she & the 13 yr old were really gang-bangers setting you up for a ambush... I don't think you have really 'trained'.
And, I've probably had more training with .223's, 12 ga pumps & pistols over the last 25 yrs than you 2 put together. Especially having worked at a LE firing range for a number of years. So..., if your system works for you.. great, stick with it... who am I to ever criticize something that works for you. But my system works very well for me.. even the bandoleer. I have trained with it. During the training I wrote about, instructors with a heck of a lot of real world experience in the military & as LEO's suggested it as a option to have available at home as part of our home defense....and it is a option I chose to use.
I've trained & prepared for a sudden natural or man-made disaster that results in wide spread lawlessness... where there will be [lots] of looters roaming the streets and where a single person will need to have lots of firepower / ammunition [such as shotgun shells] at hand quickly... especially when the local police are overwhelmed. And having prepared for events of widespread lawlessness.. that will certainly cover the one or two man home intruders too.
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Not questioning the training, or choice of bandoleer, etc. Please don't feel like I'm "piling on" here... I just humbly suggest you switch back to 00 buckshot. All those little holes you make with the BB's are going to be messy, but shallow.
That being said, the 12g PDX stuff from Winchester seems to be a good alternative, with the 1 oz. slug and 3 00 pellets if you're not overly concerned about wall penetration. YMMV. I've been able to put the slug from the PDX-1 onto a pie plate at 50 yards regularly with my smoothbore 590, so it has some versatility. YMMV.
That being said, the 12g PDX stuff from Winchester seems to be a good alternative, with the 1 oz. slug and 3 00 pellets if you're not overly concerned about wall penetration. YMMV. I've been able to put the slug from the PDX-1 onto a pie plate at 50 yards regularly with my smoothbore 590, so it has some versatility. YMMV.
Hey mons meg, I don't think your pilling on. I don't mind your discussion at all... as you raise a very valid point. I just didn't like the snarky little comments made above [such as the Talisman comment or the Steven Segal jab or that 10 rounds should be enough] simply because my way of doing something didn't conform with someone else's way of doing something. My way works very well for me, I said so... and I'm comfortable with it..that should have been enough. If they wanted to say that they preferred to use a 5 shot side-saddle or stock band, then they should have simply said so without the snide comments and we could have discussed the pros & cons like you & I are doing now about the rounds.
Back to the topic... I fully understand the idea of penetration and don't disagree that is a excellent line of thinking when it comes to shots outdoors. If I was going to be shooting any distance over say 60 feet I'd probably agree with you as the mass & weight of the buckshot pellets or a slug would be much more effective than the BB's... but at 15-20 feet or so [the distance inside a average home or apartment that you would probably be shooting at a intruder] one shot of your buckshot from a 3" shell will make what... maybe 9-15 individual holes the size of a .22LR? And a pattern no wider than the width of your hand into the bad guy to cause bleeding and organ / nerve damage? About like punching him all the way through with a #2 pencil 9-15 times. And a 1" slug would probably make a 1" hole all the way through the body and might even hit the spine.
On the other hand, the 3" steel BB loads that I am using from a 18" barrel will make a massive 10-12" wide black blood cavity about like the bad guy was hit in the chest with a high speed bowling ball... with massive amounts of immediate blood loss. I've seen autopsy photos of the damage caused by slugs [which generally pass straight through], buckshot which will spread a little bit and will punch 9-15 deep penetrating holes...but at those up-close ranges inside a house or apartment.. a 3" magnum round of 80+ steel BB's that don't deform and are traveling @ 1,550 FPS do a heck of a lot more over all tissue damage than buckshot or slugs. A hit in the shoulder or a hip / leg with a 10" virtually solid pattern of steel a 1/4" or so apart will take the arm or leg completely off... a hit in the chest will crush the chest bone / lungs & heart. And you don't have to worry near as much about over penetration.
Then as a round for large numbers of looters... @ distances of 50 ft to 50 yards... a wide pattern of 80+ BB's will disperse a crowd in a New York Minute. It is all a matter of personal preference.. to each their own.
B
Bill Mac
Guest
My concern with laying a loaded pistol next to a flashlight and cell phone on top of the nightstand would be if an intruder got in the house before I or the Misses awoke and saw them lying there before I got to them, thereby negating their value and using them against you and with no way to call the police. I personally like the shotgun tucked by my side of the bed between the mattresses as some have stated. We also have several loaded pistols concealed in a hidden slideout drawer in the top of a Master Bedroom dresser. The best way with children in the house is with the touch lock safe outlined here in these posts. I have several friends that use them for instant access. I would also if I had the need to protect them from children's access.
BB shot is bad enough. That it is steel BB shot is even worse. I guess you'll be protected when your home is over run by the mindless hordes of brain eating geese.
Anyone who's done 3 minutes of research on shotgun terminal ballistics will be using #4 buck or 00. Federal has great loads of both with their AWESOME flight control wad that are much better suited to personal defense than your goose loads.
Anyone who's done 3 minutes of research on shotgun terminal ballistics will be using #4 buck or 00. Federal has great loads of both with their AWESOME flight control wad that are much better suited to personal defense than your goose loads.
I was just going to post this. While your "Holes, lots of holes" idea is good in theory when those holes are only about a 1/2" deep they aren't doing much other than causing pain. You want holes you can see through. Load heavier projectiles.
Geesh, BB's, buckshot or slugs or plain target loads... a direct 12 ga shotgun blast to a bad guy fired inside a home or apartment is gonna seriously injure or kill him... you guys hung up on the buckshot and slugs and who feel the need to make silly jabs at people who don't agree with your way of thinking need to get a life. Heck, what was the little lady using when she shot & killed the guy brandishing a knife who broke into her trailer not long ago... a #7 1/2 or 8 target load normally used for killing rabbits & skunks? Use whatever loads you want so long as the job gets done. But posting insults because you don't agree with someone else's comments are just plain childish.
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