Tahoe or 4Runner?

[SoonerP226]

Yes it was a loan. Ford's CEO went to DC asking for money with the other 2 CEOs of the big 3. They came out with a different deal but that doesnt change the fact that they were facing the same struggles the other 2 were. Now they're facing an $11b restructuring that could last several years.

Alan Mulally didn't go to DC to ask for money for Ford; Ford had already secured private loans, and didn't need Uncle Sugar to keep from failing. He went to DC to support the other two CEOs because there was a very real fear that GM going under would've taken out a huge chunk of the supplier base, which would've killed all vehicle manufacturing in the US for years. By that time, the credit markets were basically frozen, and private lending was no longer an option for GM and Chrysler.

Saying that Ford took the bailout money is the real disingenuous statement. What they took from the gov't was a Dep't Of Energy loan to retool plants to meet gov't mandates, and that loan has long since been repaid. And Ford wasn't the only company to take those loans.

 

[Dr. HK]

Tahoe: Better for 4x4, more comfortable, reliable. Cons: less MPG, and doesnt keep its value as well
4runner: Better gas mileage, keeps its value. Cons: bumpy, uncomfortable, and feels like a paper cup when driving because it is so light.

 

[cm_osu]

Alan Mulally didn't go to DC to ask for money for Ford; Ford had already secured private loans, and didn't need Uncle Sugar to keep from failing. He went to DC to support the other two CEOs because there was a very real fear that GM going under would've taken out a huge chunk of the supplier base, which would've killed all vehicle manufacturing in the US for years. By that time, the credit markets were basically frozen, and private lending was no longer an option for GM and Chrysler.

Saying that Ford took the bailout money is the real disingenuous statement. What they took from the gov't was a Dep't Of Energy loan to retool plants to meet gov't mandates, and that loan has long since been repaid. And Ford wasn't the only company to take those loans.

As of their 2017 financial statements it looks like they still owe 2.651b. They planned to pay 591m in 2018 leaving 2.060b.

If you don't want to characterize that loan, taken at the same time as the TARP disbursements, ok. More power to you.

Nope ford wasn't the only one to take advantage of the program. According to DOE, their 5.9b loan was only 73.75% of the 8b that's been loaned by the program.



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[SoonerP226]

As of their 2017 financial statements it looks like they still owe 2.651b. They planned to pay 591m in 2018 leaving 2.060b.

If you don't want to characterize that loan, taken at the same time as the TARP disbursements, ok. More power to you.

Nope ford wasn't the only one to take advantage of the program. According to DOE, their 5.9b loan was only 73.75% of the 8b that's been loaned by the program.

There's quite a list of DoE loan takers. Here's what Ford had to say about the program:

DOE ATVM Incentive Program
In September 2009, we entered into a Loan Arrangement and Reimbursement Agreement with the DOE, under which we borrowed through multiple draws $5.9 billion to finance certain costs for fuel-efficient, advanced-technology vehicles. At December 31, 2017, an aggregate $2.7 billion was outstanding. The principal amount of the ATVM loan bears interest at a blended rate based on the U.S. Treasury yield curve at the time each draw was made (with the weighted-average interest rate on all such draws being about 2.3% per annum). The ATVM loan is repayable in equal quarterly installments of $148 million, which began in September 2012 and will end in June 2022.

So, you are technically correct that Ford still owes on the ATVM loan, but that's because it is being repaid according to the terms of the loan.

The money we lost on GM and Chrysler is just gone.

If you want to characterize multiple draws on a loan (taken after the bailout of GM and Chrysler) for financing "costs for fuel-efficient, advanced-technology vehicles," well, more power to ya.

 

[cm_osu]

There's quite a list of DoE loan takers. Here's what Ford had to say about the program:

So, you are technically correct that Ford still owes on the ATVM loan, but that's because it is being repaid according to the terms of the loan.

The money we lost on GM and Chrysler is just gone.

If you want to characterize multiple draws on a loan (taken after the bailout of GM and Chrysler) for financing "costs for fuel-efficient, advanced-technology vehicles," well, more power to ya.

There are literally 3 companies that have taken part in the ATVM program according to DOE website.

Tesla 464m
Nissan 1.45b
Ford 5.9b

These loans given at interest rates lower than the fair market would support. Ford has paid exactly what they and the government agreed to. I still dont think they should be commended for taking money out of one taxpayer funded bucket instead of another.

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[SoonerP226]

There are literally 3 companies that have taken part in the ATVM program according to DOE website.

You missed SVG and Fisker.

These loans given at interest rates lower than the fair market would support. Ford has paid exactly what they and the government agreed to. I still dont think they should be commended for taking money out of one taxpayer funded bucket instead of another.

They took loans from a program that pre-dated the bailout to help cover the costs of complying with Federal mandates, and they're paying it back according to the terms of the deal. That's not taking bailout money. It's also neither commendable nor bad. It's just business.

 

[1911Sooner]

A Oklahoma Hiway Patrolman lives in my neighborhood and a lot of them drive Tahoes. He told me many of them have around the 300,000 mile mark.

 

[OKCShooter]

I’m possibly in the same boat - Company Car for almost 25 years and now looking at car allowance.

I have 4 kids so I need a useable 3rd row.

I’ll be getting and Escalade or Mercedes GL550.

 

[Dr. HK]

Tahoe ....better for 4X4 ...I have to know on what basis you would make this statment

Was in a Chevy club in California and we would literally bring all food,water,gas and go across the desert/mountains. Big block Chevy,Ford’s could make it up mountains but many times we would have to tow Toyota’s. It’s a fact just from experience.

 

[dennishoddy]

Was in a Chevy club in California and we would literally bring all food,water,gas and go across the desert/mountains. Big block Chevy,Ford’s could make it up mountains but many times we would have to tow Toyota’s. It’s a fact just from experience.

Lol, there is a reason Toyota isn’t included in the GM advertising for longest lasting vehicle and it isn’t because they had to be towed.
The resale is also incredible.
I priced my 95 Tacoma 6 banger Auto extra cab with 356,000 miles on it for $4000.00 and it sold in one day to the first caller at asking price.
Be lucky to get $500 for a Gm, Ford or Dodge of that vintage.