US Flag Code Violations

[JRSherman]

If you haven't seen this yet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nONjlZ8YMkA

This is how I feel about THE FLAG. There is only one Flag, to me.

While the Senate reference here:

http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RL30243.pdf

otherwise known as The United States Flag: Federal Law Relating to Display
and Associated Questions, is a great quick reference, I was recently given a good piece that had many parts taken directly from here:

http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/Title_04.txt

which I think to be a better, although lengthier and lawyer-ized, version to read.

The church across the street from my house had the boy scouts put up a pole and flag. For the first three days they took the flag in at night. Since they just leave it up all day and night. I wrote them about the lack of lighting, and their failure to take it to half mast, and take it in during bad weather.

Their response was FWD'd from the boy scouts of America, stating their was sufficient light in the area, and they felt that they were doing "enough" to be within the letter of the law.

It sickens me that they are teaching scouts to be lawyers and do as little as they can get away with by the letter of the law, instead of doing what they should do and understand the reason, and meaning of a law.

I probably would have taken it down. And kept taking the new ones down until they got the hint, even if it was a Church. . .

 

[BluRaySS]

If you haven't seen this yet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nONjlZ8YMkA

This is how I feel about THE FLAG. There is only one Flag, to me.

While the Senate reference here:

http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RL30243.pdf

otherwise known as The United States Flag: Federal Law Relating to Display
and Associated Questions, is a great quick reference, I was recently given a good piece that had many parts taken directly from here:

http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/Title_04.txt

which I think to be a better, although lengthier and lawyer-ized, version to read.




I probably would have taken it down. And kept taking the new ones down until they got the hint, even if it was a Church. . .

lol, It wasn't me that pulled their flag. They obviously felt as all others do. Since they were a church they could do as they please and be forgiven. I hold ZERO regard for churches. I am pretty sure I was the first to contact them and let them know just how, where, and how bad they were screwing up.
I guess they had more pressing issues....

 

[henschman]

I'm sure I'm going to be the minority on a controversial subject again (imagine that!!! )... but does anyone else think that the whole idea of a "flag code" is kind of collectivist?

It just strikes me as a little odd when someone like the guy in the OP can be completely well-meaning, or doing something that he considers to be patriotic, but it is considered "wrong" because it violates some official rule somewhere. Many of those rules strike me as arbitrary and counter-intuative. I'm sure there is some kind of history behind each one of those flag conventions, but I don't see any reason why people should be limited to narrow or "official" avenues of demonstrating their pride in their country.

Making up "officiallly correct" ways of displaying the flag runs counter to what I believe this nation ought to stand for... i.e., liberty and individuality. Anyway, the way a flag is displayed or worn doesn't matter nearly as much to me as the intent with which it is being done.

I actually much prefer the attitude the brits have about their flag (and I don't say kind things about those people lightly). They put the union jack on EVERYTHING, and don't mind it being used on hats, t-shirts, even undies! They consider it to be a show of patriotism. Now what in the world is wrong with that?

 

[pinkhamr]

Anyone see Obama place his hand on his heart, while facing the flag, during the playing of the National Anthem lately??? ....

 

[de-evoproject]

I'm sure I'm going to be the minority on a controversial subject again (imagine that!!! )... but does anyone else think that the whole idea of a "flag code" is kind of collectivist?

It just strikes me as a little odd when someone like the guy in the OP can be completely well-meaning, or doing something that he considers to be patriotic, but it is considered "wrong" because it violates some official rule somewhere. Many of those rules strike me as arbitrary and counter-intuative. I'm sure there is some kind of history behind each one of those flag conventions, but I don't see any reason why people should be limited to narrow or "official" avenues of demonstrating their pride in their country.

Making up "officiallly correct" ways of displaying the flag runs counter to what I believe this nation ought to stand for... i.e., liberty and individuality. Anyway, the way a flag is displayed or worn doesn't matter nearly as much to me as the intent with which it is being done.

I actually much prefer the attitude the brits have about their flag (and I don't say kind things about those people lightly). They put the union jack on EVERYTHING, and don't mind it being used on hats, t-shirts, even undies! They consider it to be a show of patriotism. Now what in the world is wrong with that?

Sorry man but i stick by the saying, "If its worth doing, its worth doing right." If you can't do it the right way, don't do it.

We have a code for the flag because any jerk off from Eygpt could throw our flag on a stick and wave it around. The truly patriotic that really want to show their pride for their country and respect for the symbol of it should have no problem following a few basic rules. The code was not put together so that someone could run up on you saying,"AH HA, you did it wrong! See, see, says so right here!". The code was developed to show the amount of respect we have for symbols of our freedom.

Pride is nothing if you are proud in ignorance and apathy.

 

[JRSherman]

I'm sure I'm going to be the minority on a controversial subject again (imagine that!!! )... but does anyone else think that the whole idea of a "flag code" is kind of collectivist?

It just strikes me as a little odd when someone like the guy in the OP can be completely well-meaning, or doing something that he considers to be patriotic, but it is considered "wrong" because it violates some official rule somewhere. Many of those rules strike me as arbitrary and counter-intuative. I'm sure there is some kind of history behind each one of those flag conventions, but I don't see any reason why people should be limited to narrow or "official" avenues of demonstrating their pride in their country.

Making up "officiallly correct" ways of displaying the flag runs counter to what I believe this nation ought to stand for... i.e., liberty and individuality. Anyway, the way a flag is displayed or worn doesn't matter nearly as much to me as the intent with which it is being done.

I actually much prefer the attitude the brits have about their flag (and I don't say kind things about those people lightly). They put the union jack on EVERYTHING, and don't mind it being used on hats, t-shirts, even undies! They consider it to be a show of patriotism. Now what in the world is wrong with that?

I stopped feeling lightly about the only symbol left of our nation after three different things happened to me.

The first was an old AF pilot that flew missions throughout WW2 and Korea. Everybody around our small town knew him as Sarge Carney, and I feel terrible right now that I can't remember his first name. He WAS the Flag "Guardian" for our town. He was the old man raising and lowering the Flag at the Courthouse each day. If one was being flown or hung incorrectly, and he found out about it, it wouldn't be a day before he was informing the owner in a nice and mentor-like manner.

I didn't get to know him as well as I'd have liked anyway, as I was a punk-a$$ kid about the time he was stopping by my mom's boot repair shop, and when I did start caring, he had gotten Alzheimer's in a really bad way, really fast. Rest in Peace on your final flight into the Wild Blue Yonder Sarge!


The second thing that happened to me was when I had to start performing Colors at the last place I worked in the Navy. As a nuke I hadn't had to do it before, but when I switched to shore duty we all had our turn to take. It was really a combination, because that was also when I started relic hunting for Civil War items as well.

I didn't feel it so much in the morning, raising the Flag briskly. In the evening, though, when Taps is played and you have to take your time lowering the Flag ceremoniously, it gave me a lot of time to think about the connection I was sharing with the men I was retrieving lost objects from.

The third thing that happened to me was a visit to Arlington National Cemetery when my wife and I visited our Capitol. I will never feel the same about a military death again. You can tell right there whether or not you love this country, because if you want to argue through whether or not we needed to be in any of the wars this country has endured, and feel nothing towards the men that had little to no choice where they died, standing in that most vast of cemeteries, then I guess I will dismiss you as my countryman.

Blame the War, don't blame the Warrior.

If you've read nothing else of my post, this is what I realized.

Men died for this Flag. Men gave their last breaths saving this Flag from foreign evils in places they didn't return from. Men bled their last drops of blood preventing this Flag from falling and touching the ground.

This collection of different colored cloths and threads, sewn together and attached to pipe-flag poles, wooden staffs, radio masts, or whatever they could improvise in their war torn location, was what gave men glimmers of hope that they might be in a safer spot than where they just marched from.

If you have to become so freedom consumed that you cannot retain ceremony and supreme dignity for one such item out of all the millions of items that exist, what cost are you paying? I think we are in that checkout line right now, and the cashier is about to ring up a total we are not prepared for. . .

 

[MBowman325]

It just strikes me as a little odd when someone like the guy in the OP can be completely well-meaning, or doing something that he considers to be patriotic, but it is considered "wrong" because it violates some official rule somewhere. Many of those rules strike me as arbitrary and counter-intuative. [...]

Making up "officiallly correct" ways of displaying the flag runs counter to what I believe this nation ought to stand for... i.e., liberty and individuality. Anyway, the way a flag is displayed or worn doesn't matter nearly as much to me as the intent with which it is being done.

As I've seen several times, the best intentions can pave the road to hell... (I've been down that road once or twice...)

My problem with the guy I saw was the fact that he was essentially was cleaning his hands with the Flag and allowing it to drag the dirty surroundings. Intentionally placing the flag in a situation so that it may collect filth I think is a show of disrespect.

Saying that having official ways to display the banner of the United States of America is counter to the spirit of the founding fathers is a bit odd to me. What else shouldn't have official guidelines? It is true, the Flag Code is a list of recommendations (it even says so) with no consequences if you violate it, it should still be heeded in its spirit. There is your liberty - you're welcome to do what you want to the flag without repercussions as an American citizen. (Generalized statement: If you're not an American citizen, then I don't see how it matters)

As far as arbitrary for the rules, you could say that. The flag should be hung on the north entrance if there are multiple entrances. The union should be facing a certain way (upper left when hung on a wall). When displaying the flag with other flags, it should be displayed a certain way because here in the US, it should be the #1 flag. I don't see any as being counter-intuitive - the flag is a symbol of our country and should be treated as you would want our nation treated.

You mention the Union Jack being on everything, displayed everywhere. Great. We're not British though. I have no clue what their flag code is. Maybe I'll go look it up later today.

So, that covers your liberties and your arbitrary rule-sets. As the guy I talked to at the OU game, you may do as you wish with no fear of government reprisal.

I am curious though, which points do you see as counter-intuitive?

 

[JD8]

I'm sure I'm going to be the minority on a controversial subject again (imagine that!!! )... but does anyone else think that the whole idea of a "flag code" is kind of collectivist?

Absolutely, especially around here lately.

Making up "officiallly correct" ways of displaying the flag runs counter to what I believe this nation ought to stand for... i.e., liberty and individuality. Anyway, the way a flag is displayed or worn doesn't matter nearly as much to me as the intent with which it is being done.

+1

Personally, I would have told the OP to mind his own business.

 

[OicnaiC]

The one that irks me the most is seeing a different flag being flown above the Stars and Stripes.

Even in my teen years of angst, anarchy and hating the government, I still held great respect for the flag. I always took great pride in the fact that I could burn a flag or mutilate it anyway I wanted to but I would never do so myself. The worst I ever wanted to do was raise the flag upside down on a prominent building in town as a symbol that this country is in distress and needs a major change. (Which oddly almost conforms to the flag code, now that I read it).

Making up "officiallly correct" ways of displaying the flag runs counter to what I believe this nation ought to stand for... i.e., liberty and individuality. Anyway, the way a flag is displayed or worn doesn't matter nearly as much to me as the intent with which it is being done.

I think the "offically correct" ways were made not so much to tell everybody how they are required to do things but more to set a universal standard for people to go on i.e. properly setting silverware at a table. You can do it however the hell you want but to show the greatest respect, this is how it should be done.

I actually much prefer the attitude the brits have about their flag (and I don't say kind things about those people lightly). They put the union jack on EVERYTHING, and don't mind it being used on hats, t-shirts, even undies! They consider it to be a show of patriotism. Now what in the world is wrong with that?

I do agree with this but I also think dragging around a real flag, using it as a blanket or cape is ignorantly disrespectful. Get a red, white and blue blanket. Put the flag on a pole where it belongs.

 

[Bobrob]

I attended an event in a large outdoor ball park recently, Where a Hispanic individual and his family, refused to stand and kept eating with his hat on, while the colors were being presented and during the anthem.

That didn't torque me quite as much as the color guard playing graba** with each other after they had left the field(still displaying the flag-s).
I glanced around and my BIL, nephew and I were the only ones remaining on our feet, while the Police-Fire color guard were showing their lack of professionalism. They knew better, that family did not.