Dealing with Mental Health

[Red Dirt Walker]

I wanted to post this in here so those of us that support the 2nd Amendment could discuss how to address the problem of mental health and firearms.
When it comes to high visible news and especially "mass shootings" we in the firearms community point out the mental health aspect that most of the perpetrators have. The woman that shot up the Christian school recently was under care for mental health related problems. The shooter that shot up the bank recently was being treated for mental health related problems. Yet both were able to buy a firearm or multiple firearms.
Many point out that NICS is supposed to screen for mental health problems but that's only if someone put them in the system, but it's also not that clear. The only way a person can be put in the NICS system for mental health is if they are judicially put on there or they are committed to an institution. That means simply being treated is not a criteria for being put on the list.

After all that, here's the question. We see that there is a mental health aspect to many if not all mass shooters at least, but they are not enough to have the person committed or appear before a judge. Is there anything we can do to limit their access to firearm while being treated?
Can a family member request them to be put on the NICS list based upon current treatment they are receiving?
Should a doctor be able to put a person on the NICS list for the treatment they are receiving?
If a doctor or family member can request a person be added can another doctor refute the recommendation of another doctor?

I know this is a touchy subject due to Rights like the 2nd but also the 4th, but if a common aspect of many shooters is mental health while some are even seeking treatment, but still murdering people, is there more than can be done, that we in the shooting community can live with. If there is not, can we get the common person to understand why we point out mental health issues, but don't have any real solutions on how to deal with it?

 

[OkieMoe]

Liberalism seems to be the root of most gun related shootings. And all things related to liberalism. We have been conditioned to tiptoe around all things related and it needs to stop. MSM pushes the Repub White Male as the constant perp when that is FAR from the truth. and we just sit and eat it up.

At what point do we stop dropping more laws on those NOT causing the problems and start actually fixing those causing the damage.

 

[trekrok]

It's up to family and friends, imo.

Otherwise you are advocating for red flags, universal background and registration. Why is it when we start down the mental health path (which is highly relevant) do we then automatically try to tie it gun access? I mean, why wouldn't they just plow their car through a big crowd if they are intent on mass murder? Or should we just confine everyone that's flagged for an appropriate amount of time to make sure they are 'thinking' right? Should we just give up our rights to prove that there are other, equally effective ways to kill people?

Also, I would like to see an accurate accounting of what drugs (anti-depressants, anti-psychotics etc), all the shooters in the last 10-15 years were prescribed. And what their status was at the time - ie had they been taking them as prescribed, had they quit taking them?

The side effects on the tv ads for a lot of these drugs talk about suicidal thoughts. If that's a thing, it doesn't seem like homicidal thoughts would be a giant leap.

So before we talk general mental health, I'd like to see if a pill is a significant contributor.

 

[GC7]

When I took my CCW qualification class in OKC, 80% of the people in the class with me should NOT have owned guns based on how terrible they were at shooting a 7 yard target. These were all, ostensibly, mentally well people who were functional members of society.

 

[SoonerP226]

Many point out that NICS is supposed to screen for mental health problems but that's only if someone put them in the system, but it's also not that clear. The only way a person can be put in the NICS system for mental health is if they are judicially put on there or they are committed to an institution. That means simply being treated is not a criteria for being put on the list.

That’s because NICS can only check public legal (judicial) records. Mental health records, like other medical records, are confidential, and for good reason.

That’s why the yellow sheet asks if you’ve been adjudicated mentally defective (judicial record) instead of asking if you’ve been diagnosed with a mental illness (medical record).

 

[Red Dirt Walker]

That’s because NICS can only check public legal (judicial) records. Mental health records, like other medical records, are confidential, and for good reason.

That’s why the yellow sheet asks if you’ve been adjudicated mentally defective (judicial record) instead of asking if you’ve been diagnosed with a mental illness (medical record).

Yep, I understand that, which prompted my question. Is there anything else that can be done to limit access to a firearm by a person that is currently being treated for mental health issues, or is the answer to the problem of mental health.....it is what it is and hope people get better before the public gets even more onboard with banning firearms than they are now?

 

[Red Dirt Walker]

Liberalism seems to be the root of most gun related shootings. And all things related to liberalism. We have been conditioned to tiptoe around all things related and it needs to stop. MSM pushes the Repub White Male as the constant perp when that is FAR from the truth. and we just sit and eat it up.

At what point do we stop dropping more laws on those NOT causing the problems and start actually fixing those causing the damage.

Agree 100%. Is there nothing more than can be done to address the mental health of a person and their access to a firearm that the firearm community could get onboard with?

 

[Red Dirt Walker]

When I took my CCW qualification class in OKC, 80% of the people in the class with me should NOT have owned guns based on how terrible they were at shooting a 7 yard target. These were all, ostensibly, mentally well people who were functional members of society.

Adequate training is different than mental health. More training can improve a persons skill and doesn't generally play a factor in shooting sprees.

 

[Red Dirt Walker]

It's up to family and friends, imo.

Otherwise you are advocating for red flags, universal background and registration. Why is it when we start down the mental health path (which is highly relevant) do we then automatically try to tie it gun access? I mean, why wouldn't they just plow their car through a big crowd if they are intent on mass murder? Or should we just confine everyone that's flagged for an appropriate amount of time to make sure they are 'thinking' right? Should we just give up our rights to prove that there are other, equally effective ways to kill people?

Also, I would like to see an accurate accounting of what drugs (anti-depressants, anti-psychotics etc), all the shooters in the last 10-15 years were prescribed. And what their status was at the time - ie had they been taking them as prescribed, had they quit taking them?

The side effects on the tv ads for a lot of these drugs talk about suicidal thoughts. If that's a thing, it doesn't seem like homicidal thoughts would be a giant leap.

So before we talk general mental health, I'd like to see if a pill is a significant contributor.

Valid concern and question.

We as a society are fine with taking grandma or grandpa's keys at some point. Legally can we take away your dads firearms though? I don't believe so. I agree with the premise though.

 

[Okie4570]

Families rarely if ever think that their loved one(s) whether mentally ill or not are capable of killing someone or even themselves. It's no different than criminals who break the law do so thinking that they won't get caught. That's why the death penalty doesn't prevent crime no matter how humane or inhumane the method of execution might be, will never curb crime, folks simply think they won't get caught.