Here we go again, another school shooting. This time in Texas

[Gadsden]

I can't wrap my head around what entering that crime scene will do to first responders or investigators.

My worst nightmare. You can't unsee that stuff.

You are correct, some stuff one can never unsee.

 

[jakeman]

You are correct, some stuff one can never unsee.

If I close my eyes, and just concentrate a little, I can see every one again, in the same detail as when it was at my feet.

I just try not to do that very often. As a matter of fact, I'm gonna run along now and go do something else for the rest of the day. This is getting to be a little too much.

 

[DavidMcmillan]

Remember there is almost always misinformation reported early on in these situations.

And long afterward. Information is presented with a specific point in mind, no matter which side of the aisle is reporting.

 

[kingfish]

You have to keep in mind the media and gov. are still in discussions as to the "official report" as to what took place. The details have to fit the narrative they want to push to achieve maximum damage to for the cause. For instance do they want to push the idea that LEOs waited outside while formulating a plan or waiting for a tactical unit to show up making them look bad or suppress that idea and focus on the main bad actor and the only way to prevent another one of these is the total disarmament of America. Manipulation of emotion is their word craft not the reporting of facts.

 

[Dale00]

The term "mass shooting" promotes the anti-gun rights case. Horrific mass killings occur both here and in countries where guns are highly restricted. Madness will find a way.

 

[wawazat]

No worries, I understood what you were saying, I was just adding my two cents.

I agree about the benefits derived from training for high stress situations, it cannot be underestimated. What I don't agree with is holding the agencies responsible for not getting their officers the training. If they don't have the budgets and in many cases the manpower to fill in while officers are gone for extended amounts of time they are kinda caught between a rock and a hard place. They want the training but circumstances beyond their control prevent them from getting it. The responsibility for what occurs if they do not get the proper training should fall on those who don't provide the budgets for them to receive it. In some cases, many actually, its local governments who divert funds from law enforcement to other areas and in other cases it's the voters who refuse to vote for more money for emergency responders. No money equals no training and bare bone resources.

BTW I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of some officers. But keep in mind one can find people in every profession that, for one reason or another, should not be there. Unfortunately, right or wrong, law enforcement always finds themselves singled out by the media every time there's a problem but hardly ever for all the good things they do that sometimes go above and beyond their duties.

Regarding some of the shenanigans that seem to come up in small town agencies, I have seen it first hand. I am not going to go into details, but after witnessing some things that no officer should ever be a part of I found myself with no other choice other than to take what I knew to higher authorities who, after an investigation, took the proper steps to correct the problem

We definitely saw it on the firefighter said before my dad retired. Running into a situation knowing the guy next to him wouldnt go in due to fear of fire was a large contributor to his retirement. That guy just got rotated to various stations on the outskirts of their jurisdiction. The worst part is he liked to stroll around puffy chested in FD tshirts when he was off duty.

Your rebuttal on who should be held accountable is entirely valid. Rather than department, maybe city council would be more appropriate. Create a path for them to show adequate prioritization of budget to pass the accountability buck to the next level above them. I dont know what the right answer is, but I do know first responders get the short end of the stick a LOT.

 

[Glocktogo]

And just trying to fight is nonsense to me since they have the propaganda wing telling the public how evil guns are and if we only get rid of them everything will be peaceful, beautiful and unicorns will return with rainbows shooting out of their a$$.
We need to write the laws in such a way to protect our rights or we can kiss them goodbye,

Fine. You write the laws. Just know that if they even obliquely restrict access to arms by law abiding citizens, We. Will. Not. Comply.

Authority without responsibility, is tyranny.

BS

No he's correct. It is not federally mandated for states to report adjudications of mental incompetence to NICS, because it would violate the 10th Amendment (not that that has stopped the federal government in other areas). Another reason is that there's no universally accepted definition of "mentally incompetent". The VA uses "to manage their own affairs" and that's set off a firestorm in the past. Definitions vary from state to state and states have varying degrees of capacity to accurately and effectively report. Remember when even the Dept. of Defense was failing to report disqualified service persons to NICS?

There is no simple fix on that front, and even then it doesn't address anything except FFL purchases.

My frustration isnt even political. It is the complete failure of anyone in media or elected positions to be able to effectively carry out root cause analysis on anything. I get incredibly disheartened about the world as a whole when I see how voluntarily ignorant and manipulative people can be when they are in a position to steer public opinion.

Then add on that there arent enough intelligent people in the population to take them to task and call them out on what they aren't saying and it becomes difficult to see us headed anywhere other than downhill. It is truly depressing and stokes the fire to work my ass off until I can buy a few hundred acres and just live in bliss hunting and fishing near a small town of country folks haha.

Ding, Ding, Ding! Media persons are collectively, one of the dumbest subspecies of humans extant. They have no capacity for critical analysis. Therefore they should never be relied upon for accurate information or commentary.

I don't know . . . if the safety officer's sole job was to man the secured entrance I don't think it would be pointless. Depending on police for protection however does seem to be pointless in this case.

Didn't a judge in Florida dismiss a case filed against the school and local LEOs stating that neither had a duty to protect the students during the shooting?

I think you mean ALL judges everywhere. That's how the system is set up. No one in authority EVER goes to prison in these events. Not administrators, not managers, not commissioners, not superintendents, not mayors, not legislators, not governors, not cops, not agents, not state's attorneys, not federal prosecutors, not judges from the city judges all the way to Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States. No. One.

There's no legal mechanism for it and there never will be. The entirety of all government authority have investigated this issue and declared themselves not it. All we have left is this: Authority without responsibility, is tyranny.

The school shooting in Columbine changed the way law enforcement responds to active shooter situations. Before Columbine law enforcement was taught to secure the area and wait until specialized units arrived to deal with the shooter. Obviously that was a bad plan which is why everything changed after Columbine. Since then law enforcement is taught to immediately enter and stop the threat.

I'm not going to judge because I wasn't there and I learned a long time ago to take anything the media reports with a grain of salt. But I agree, if this is accurate and officers did not immediately enter the school it is infuriating and more than that, it is inexcusable.

Sadly, pathetically, that just isn't true. It is excusable by them. They will excuse themselves and no one will be held responsible. As my dad used to infuriatingly say, hide and watch.

 

[BobbyV]

The biggest argument I have heard from LEO concerning armed teachers is a friendly fire incident where LEO shows up, sees teacher with a gun and mistakes him/her as the perp.

I can understand that as a concern. School security should be uniformed/easily identified to prevent this.

 

[joegrizzy]

this is really shaping out to be a MASSIVE failure of local police. i don't understand the whole "crawl to me" situations but then something like this.

are cops that bad when the suspect can actually shoot back? i mean holy crap we saw what the dallas shooter did to several of them; are cops really this worthless?


case in point: church goer blasts would-be shooter in the dome, stopping a mass killing situation.

meanwhile, cops in both florida and now texas just.....wait while your children get slaughtered.

what is their job?!
back before the whole F 12 normie push, i was one of those right libertarian leaning folks who thought policing in this country was all sorts of messed up.

our voices got drowned out by DEFUND THE POLICE and POLICE KILL BLACK PEOPLE, but in reality, it's stuff like THIS that shows how sad our policing situation really is.

imo, you can't use phrases like "put my life on the line" WHEN YOU DON'T PUT YOUR LIFE ON THE LINE WHEN IT COUNTS. i said long ago; YES I WOULD TRADE THE SAFETY AND SECURITY OF POLICE OFFICERS FOR THE SAFETY AND SECURITY OF THE CITIZENRY. THAT IS THE POINT OF POLICE.

IF OUR COURTS HAVE RULED THAT POLICE HAVE NO LEGAL OBLIGATION TO PROTECT OR SERVE; THEY ARE MERELY REVENUE GENERATING KILLERS FOR THE STATE.


WHAT ELSE ARE THEY?!

 

[Rooster1971]

Fine. You write the laws. Just know that if they even obliquely restrict access to arms by law abiding citizens, We. Will. Not. Comply.

Authority without responsibility, is tyranny.


No he's correct. It is not federally mandated for states to report adjudications of mental incompetence to NICS, because it would violate the 10th Amendment (not that that has stopped the federal government in other areas). Another reason is that there's no universally accepted definition of "mentally incompetent". The VA uses "to manage their own affairs" and that's set off a firestorm in the past. Definitions vary from state to state and states have varying degrees of capacity to accurately and effectively report. Remember when eve the Dept. of Defense was failing to report disqualified service persons to NICS?

There is no simple fix on that front, and even then it doesn't address anything except FFL purchases.

Ding, Ding, Ding! Media persons are collectively, one of the dumbest subspecies of humans extant. They have no capacity for critical analysis. Therefore they should never be relied upon for accurate information or commentary.

I think you mean ALL judges everywhere. That's how the system is set up. No one in authority EVER goes to prison in these events. Not administrators, not managers, not commissioners, not superintendents, not mayors, not legislators, not governors, not cops, not agents, not state's attorneys, not federal prosecutors, not judges from the city prosecutor all the way to Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States. No. One.

There's no legal mechanism for it and there never will be. The entirety of all government authority have investigated this issue and declared themselves not it. All we have left is this: Authority without responsibility, is tyranny.

Sadly, pathetically, that just isn't true. It is excusable by them. They will excuse themselves and no one will be held responsible. As my dad used to infuriatingly say, hide and watch.

Have you been to therapy? I have. She told me unequivocally that she was required to report me if she thought I had any reason to harm myself or another person even though I never gave her any reason. I was there trying to resolve some under lying resentments that I felt compelled my to drink excessively and after going through divorce.