Dealing with Mental Health

[Virtuaguyver]

The way I see it, it takes way to much work to get mental health on someone's record. Personally I know way too many loonies with guns, even some that can't own guns, can purchase from individuals. I don't think it can be fixed, best thing is just be ready.

 

[chuter]

Dude, I'm with you, but you are stating numbers....facts....data. Most people in the US don't know those and frankly I don't think many in that group of unknowing care. All they see is another news story about a mentally unhealthy person shooting up some place. The fact that school shootings for example are extremely rare is lost on them as they don't care. All they see is the news report of dead children.
Unfortunately this emotionally driven reaction is a result of media. I'm not a young person so I remember the late 80s and early 90s well. Those years were the highest years on record for firearms deaths. What I don't remember is people feeling panicked about it, like many are now.
From the mid 90s when firearms death began to fall, gun sales continued to increase and this trend continued until 2020 when there was a spike in firearms deaths.
We can throw data and facts at the emotional people all day long, but it won't matter. Politics in many cases and especially Democrats in the case of firearms do not work in facts, but work in emotions and frankly, with most humans, emotions drive them more than facts.
It's for this reason that I think our community needs to fight in the area that the fight it taking place in and not where we think it should be. This means to me, discussing avenues to limit access of firearms to individuals that are suffering from some mental health issue. At least for a time period until it is resolved.

Nope.
That logic leads to accepting their reality as something to deal with in some reasonable way, which is not possible.
Might as well say all the trans people are not mentally ill or deluded and we need to adjust our reality to fit into their crazy.

 

[John6185]

Something we already knew but I found this on the internet the other day after the shooting at a school in Tennessee by a guy who thought he was a gal.

Dr. Paul McHugh, a former psychiatrist-in-chief at Johns Hopkins Hospital, has argued that transgenderism is a mental disorder, and that sex-reassignment surgery is not a solution. McHugh has said that “transgendered men do not become women, nor do transgendered women become men. All (including Bruce Jenner) become feminized men or masculinized women, counterfeits or impersonators of the sex with which they ‘identify.'”

 

[jeromebill7718]

The police should fence off a portion of the armory or evidence room so that people adjusting their meds or coming off of anestesia can store their guns and the police should give them a card or chit in exchange. The card or chit should have a barcoad with a drivers license and another form of I.D. as a backup. No ATF or any of that crap. They may as well do something. I have had items stolen, vehicles hit and drunk neigbors walk into my house and the only thing they said is you are lucky we don't bring you in for pointing a gun at them.

 

[AndrewA43]

I wanted to post this in here so those of us that support the 2nd Amendment could discuss how to address the problem of mental health and firearms.
When it comes to high visible news and especially "mass shootings" we in the firearms community point out the mental health aspect that most of the perpetrators have. The woman that shot up the Christian school recently was under care for mental health related problems. The shooter that shot up the bank recently was being treated for mental health related problems. Yet both were able to buy a firearm or multiple firearms.
Many point out that NICS is supposed to screen for mental health problems but that's only if someone put them in the system, but it's also not that clear. The only way a person can be put in the NICS system for mental health is if they are judicially put on there or they are committed to an institution. That means simply being treated is not a criteria for being put on the list.

After all that, here's the question. We see that there is a mental health aspect to many if not all mass shooters at least, but they are not enough to have the person committed or appear before a judge. Is there anything we can do to limit their access to firearm while being treated?
Can a family member request them to be put on the NICS list based upon current treatment they are receiving?
Should a doctor be able to put a person on the NICS list for the treatment they are receiving?
If a doctor or family member can request a person be added can another doctor refute the recommendation of another doctor?

I know this is a touchy subject due to Rights like the 2nd but also the 4th, but if a common aspect of many shooters is mental health while some are even seeking treatment, but still murdering people, is there more than can be done, that we in the shooting community can live with. If there is not, can we get the common person to understand why we point out mental health issues, but don't have any real solutions on how to deal with it?

Touchy question with a real, factual and non- biased answer. How would it be to tell every vet who comes home from a hell not many of us can relate to- and tell him when he goes to purchase a nice range gun- “Sorry soldier , you have PTSD and therefore you can not purchase a gun. He can go die for oil but he can’t purchase a gun. On the other hand , a person who has been committed to a 72 hour stay involuntary in a psych ward for any reason can NOT ever purchase a firearm- probably for the best. Here is this humble firearm collector’s opinion- I really do feel that the operators and owners of places like Academy Sports and H&H and anyone who is licensed for FFL transfer needs to have mandatory education and training on the unmistakable, clearly unsteady and clearly unstable mindset of a human being. You chose to sell guns to earn a living I applaud that. I chose to put stents in people’s heart when they have a heart attack- but I had to assist in hundreds before I could deploy one and deploy it supervised. I had to be trained. And my point is if we put a mandatory 3 hour class in place to train anyone selling a firearm in a for profit business- the world would be safer. You might not think it but if you are centered, focused, calm, not overexcited about the $$ you about to make it is very easy to pick up on at least one or two signs that this is an unstable person in front of me (who needs help) before she can be a responsible firearm owner. It breaks my heart to hear about senseless innocent children assaulted in such a way but in reinforces why I have an open carry and a concealed wherever I go. I hope to never have to shoot another person in my lifetime but threaten the life of me, my family or an innocent being- I will put 2 in your left atrium and one between your eyeballs before your heart starts bleeding. Just my humble thought on that touchy topic.

 

[TinkerTanker]

Touchy question with a real, factual and non- biased answer. How would it be to tell every vet who comes home from a hell not many of us can relate to- and tell him when he goes to purchase a nice range gun- “Sorry soldier , you have PTSD and therefore you can not purchase a gun. He can go die for oil but he can’t purchase a gun. On the other hand , a person who has been committed to a 72 hour stay involuntary in a psych ward for any reason can NOT ever purchase a firearm- probably for the best. Here is this humble firearm collector’s opinion- I really do feel that the operators and owners of places like Academy Sports and H&H and anyone who is licensed for FFL transfer needs to have mandatory education and training on the unmistakable, clearly unsteady and clearly unstable mindset of a human being. You chose to sell guns to earn a living I applaud that. I chose to put stents in people’s heart when they have a heart attack- but I had to assist in hundreds before I could deploy one and deploy it supervised. I had to be trained. And my point is if we put a mandatory 3 hour class in place to train anyone selling a firearm in a for profit business- the world would be safer. You might not think it but if you are centered, focused, calm, not overexcited about the $$ you about to make it is very easy to pick up on at least one or two signs that this is an unstable person in front of me (who needs help) before she can be a responsible firearm owner. It breaks my heart to hear about senseless innocent children assaulted in such a way but in reinforces why I have an open carry and a concealed wherever I go. I hope to never have to shoot another person in my lifetime but threaten the life of me, my family or an innocent being- I will put 2 in your left atrium and one between your eyeballs before your heart starts bleeding. Just my humble thought on that touchy topic.

Not only does this run the cost of guns up, but also insurance for the gun sellers AND perceived liability, which would invite lawsuits.

No, guns for everyone. If you mess up and shoot your neighbor you go to jail or get shot yourself so your genes are removed from the gene pool.

 

[Red Dirt Walker]

Touchy question with a real, factual and non- biased answer. How would it be to tell every vet who comes home from a hell not many of us can relate to- and tell him when he goes to purchase a nice range gun- “Sorry soldier , you have PTSD and therefore you can not purchase a gun. He can go die for oil but he can’t purchase a gun. On the other hand , a person who has been committed to a 72 hour stay involuntary in a psych ward for any reason can NOT ever purchase a firearm- probably for the best. Here is this humble firearm collector’s opinion- I really do feel that the operators and owners of places like Academy Sports and H&H and anyone who is licensed for FFL transfer needs to have mandatory education and training on the unmistakable, clearly unsteady and clearly unstable mindset of a human being. You chose to sell guns to earn a living I applaud that. I chose to put stents in people’s heart when they have a heart attack- but I had to assist in hundreds before I could deploy one and deploy it supervised. I had to be trained. And my point is if we put a mandatory 3 hour class in place to train anyone selling a firearm in a for profit business- the world would be safer. You might not think it but if you are centered, focused, calm, not overexcited about the $$ you about to make it is very easy to pick up on at least one or two signs that this is an unstable person in front of me (who needs help) before she can be a responsible firearm owner. It breaks my heart to hear about senseless innocent children assaulted in such a way but in reinforces why I have an open carry and a concealed wherever I go. I hope to never have to shoot another person in my lifetime but threaten the life of me, my family or an innocent being- I will put 2 in your left atrium and one between your eyeballs before your heart starts bleeding. Just my humble thought on that touchy topic.

I can understand the reasoning here, but the problem I see is inexperience on the part of the FFL as it takes more than a few hour class to learn how to read people enough to make that call. If the FFL is on the spectrum, it may be impossible. This also opens up to bias on the part of the FFL to deny a person a firearm based upon something with the FFL.
I think if any means are agreed upon to limit the sale of a firearm to an individual it needs to involve treatment that the person is currently under. That said I see the possible problems with that approach also.

I'm just not a fan of pointing out a problem without having some solution and in this case the way I see it is that we have a mental health problem relating to firearms. The people with the mental health problem need to be limited somehow in obtaining a firearm until treated for the condition.

 

[Red Dirt Walker]

Not only does this run the cost of guns up, but also insurance for the gun sellers AND perceived liability, which would invite lawsuits.

No, guns for everyone. If you mess up and shoot your neighbor you go to jail or get shot yourself so your genes are removed from the gene pool.

Just to bad we can do something before the shoot your neighbor part.

 

[Glocktogo]

I can understand the reasoning here, but the problem I see is inexperience on the part of the FFL as it takes more than a few hour class to learn how to read people enough to make that call. If the FFL is on the spectrum, it may be impossible. This also opens up to bias on the part of the FFL to deny a person a firearm based upon something with the FFL.
I think if any means are agreed upon to limit the sale of a firearm to an individual it needs to involve treatment that the person is currently under. That said I see the possible problems with that approach also.

I'm just not a fan of pointing out a problem without having some solution and in this case the way I see it is that we have a mental health problem relating to firearms. The people with the mental health problem need to be limited somehow in obtaining a firearm until treated for the condition.

It's called an adjudication of mental incompetence in a court of law.

 

[BobbyV]

Families rarely if ever think that their loved one(s) whether mentally ill or not are capable of killing someone or even themselves. It's no different than criminals who break the law do so thinking that they won't get caught. That's why the death penalty doesn't prevent crime no matter how humane or inhumane the method of execution might be, will never curb crime, folks simply think they won't get caught.

We recently had a someone in our extended family diagnosed with bi-polar disorder. They had regular episodes of confusion and being lost. Paranoia started shortly after that resulted in increased calls to local cops and ultimately to a stint in a mental health care facility. My parents got involved and ultimately removed a S&W revolver from the house just in case. It was fairly obvious that a mistake with the weapons was very possible if the proper medication wasn't prescribed. Even after being on it for a few weeks the gun is still not in the house to protect everyone.